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Ethical Question

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Oldfart, Oct 1, 2009.

  1. Oldfart

    Oldfart Portland Member

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    About three years ago I got tired of driving past two private ranges to shoot in the mountains and decided to join one of them. It was generally a good deal for me since – as a senior citizen I got a “break” on membership dues. Believing that I should do more to help the club, I tried getting involved with the making of policy but had to back out after a severe heart attack.

    The club is financially solvent, even to the point of having a sort of excess which the officers are hard put to spend. There have been some improvements to the range that took several thousand dollars and made a significant improvement to it but there was still more money than projects so a call went out at the August meeting to suggest ways to spend the money that would benefit the club.

    On another level, the range is primarily a rifle and pistol facility. For years the only time shotguns were allowed is for checking patterns, with no allowance for trap shooting of any sort. There just wasn’t room for such a venue. Of course there are always some who don’t want to abide by the rules so after a few occasions where shotgun wads were found in the wrong places the rule was changed to eliminate scatterguns completely. The use of shotguns declined but didn’t stop completely.

    Now the officers in the club have decided to install CCTV cameras at various points around the range to identify the people who are violating the rules. I’m one of those guys who complains mightily about traffic cameras, security cameras, red-light cameras and possibly even weather cameras so I argued against the installation of even more cameras in the very place I went to escape from the surveillance society we humans have built for ourselves. I don't want people spying on me so I don't believe I should spy on others. My arguments were of no avail and the cameras are to be installed. Accordingly, I resigned my membership, turned in my keys and bid the whole bunch goodbye.

    My wife was a bit disappointed in my action though she supports my reasons for it.

    Now then, I have to wonder what others think. Did I over-react or should I have simply let my membership lapse? After giving them my time and money should I have also sacrificed my principles?

    My resignation is irreversible at this point so there are no “do overs” but I’d like to hear from others about how they would have handled the issue.
  2. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    No offense, and I surely see your point.

    On the other hand, just for me there's a big difference between "big brother" government spying on me, and having cameras on private property.

    If you come to my home you'll be photographed. It's part of the security system.

    Believe me, you are photographed in most stores now, but again that's private property. If you decide to not do business with any store which has cameras, you'll have quite a task on your hands.

  3. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't make any difference what other people think or say on this matter "To Thine Own Self Be True"..........Da Bard........:)
  4. MarkSBG

    MarkSBG Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Your principles are defined only by your actions and not by your philosophical words. So you let your actions speak volumes about what you believe in. If you were to let you membership lapse instead of quitting, you would have downgraded your principles to be more like "I don't like the camera focus society you are building, but can't be inconvenienced enough to stand up about it."

    I think you did right based on your stated philosophy. Having said that, I would ask for a pro-rated refund of my yearly dues...
  5. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    what range, if i may ask?
  6. DALE

    DALE Boring, Oregon Member

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    "O-F"...You stated your position well and took action that corresponded with your position. Kudos for that:thumbup:
  7. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    It obviously bothered you quite a bit (I think it would have bothered me as well), and you acted on your objections in a calm and reasonable manner. Nothing wrong with that.
  8. rl280

    rl280 OREGON Member

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    i would have no problem with cameras used to catch people breaking the rules ANYWHERE.:twocents:
  9. cameronhu

    cameronhu Ridgefield, Wa Member

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    I believe I would have done the same thing.
  10. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I don't know that those cameras would have bothered me as much as the anti-shotgunner idea. I shoot shotguns rarely. So rarely I think the last time I triggered on a clay bird was three or four years ago. But I think that the range with the extra money should have set up a trap or sporting clays area. Solve both "problems" with one stone...plus they would likely attract more members and revenue.
    Whatever, you Mister Oldfart, were obviously offended by the club's actions. For that I support you on what you did and how you did it.
    This country could use a few more people that act on their principals.
  11. SVT

    SVT N. Seattle Member

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    It's good to see that you stood ground on your principles. If we all did, the world would be a better place rather than one of compromises. I also don't like Cameras (unless they are my own), so your point is well taken. I guess it's time to try out the other range that you mentioned.
  12. RVNvet

    RVNvet Beaverton Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    Since you asked for opinions... personally, I think you cut off your nose to spite your own face. You still seem to feel some resentment, which, to me, is like taking poison and hoping it will kill the other guy.:)

    It's also obvious that the range you just left isn't Tri-County Gun Club; come give it a try, there's even several shotgun ranges. If you wish to visit the range before deciding whether or not to join, you'll need to go with a member. The TCGC web site, and all the info you'll need, is at http://www.tcgc.org/index.htm If you have any questions, feel free to email me. (No, I'm not on the board of directors, or any other way involved, except for paying my dues, shooting, and the occasional shooting match.)

  13. smithmax

    smithmax here Member

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    It sounds like you made the choice that you feel was appropriate, and that's good. It is unfortunate that the club was willing to spend a bunch of money CCTV's when they could have set up a shotgun range instead.

    You also mentioned another private range you drive by, why not check them out and see about joining them?
  14. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

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    You have integrity and stood by your principles. Therefore you did the right thing. I'm not sure I would have done it but I support your right to live your life according to your own values. Good for you! Too many people will follow the crowd.
  15. Oldfart

    Oldfart Portland Member

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    Thanks for the input folks. When my wife (who really enjoyed the meetings) said she agreed with me I thought I was on the right track but it's still nice to hear similar comments from strangers.

    As for those of you who thought I should have let it go since we all get photographed everywhere we go anyhow... would you also advise your wife or daughter to "lay back and enjoy it" when rape is inevitable?
  16. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    I applaud you on sticking to your principles. If the guys that are shooting shotguns against the rules had your principles this would not be an issue in the first place.
  17. Frog

    Frog Vancouver, Washington Member

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    Yo Oldfart...

    I think the best way to answer your "was I right or wrong" question, is to look back to the time you first considered joining this shooting range.

    Had the cameras been there then, would you have still joined? Not likely.

    As much as we like some things to stay the same, just about everything changes. We are fortunate enough to live in a place that allows us the choice to go along with the change, or move on.

    The range changed, you didn't choose to, so you moved on. Not right, not wrong, you just exercised your freedom to choose. :thumbup:
  18. theLEMband

    theLEMband Southeast WA Member

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    I think you were true to your convictions to take your dollars and energies elsewhere.:thumbup:
  19. DoktorT

    DoktorT Chewelah, WA Member

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    I don't see it as an ethics issue. It's just principles. You did what you know was the right thing for you to do. Good on ya!!:thumbup:
  20. Thule

    Thule Monroe, WA Member

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    I&#8217;m with you Oldfart, I wouldn&#8217;t want my range videotaping me either. No harm may ever come of it but how would you feel if you showed up to a club meeting and they announced, &#8220;Federal agency so-and-so subpoenaed all of our tape for <insert BS reason here> and we gave it to them. Tough luck everyone.&#8221;

    No thank you.

    Besides, if people are shooting shotguns so inconspicuously that nobody is even witnessing it, who gives a damn? Sounds like a bunch of ninnies with too much time on their hands if you ask me.