EPAs new assault on wood stoves

[Oregonhunter5]

Next they will throw us in jail for farting.

http://foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&external=2609341.proteus.fma

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[fuhr52]

Doesn't matter how clean burning technology can make a wood stove burn it will never be good enough for the tree hugging crowd. It's there way or the hyway. The bottom line is man's activities are destroying this planet. Our only hope is total progressive liberal control.

 

[Colt Carbine]

I'm regretting that I didn't install a wood gasification hydronic heater prior to them being banned in Oregon.

 

[dirtysteve]

And yet I continue to burn couches, tires, small cars, garbage, the homeless..... Its good being a bad guy!

 

[RVTECH]

The EPA can suck the biggest log on my woodpile. Burned wood becomes nothing more than particulate matter and dissipates or falls back the the ground harmlessly. Gee, how are they going to control forest fires? The planet is NOT in peril - we are!

 

[Arthur Chenoweth]

I point out that Oregon's attorney general joined those of 5 other states to sue the EPA in order to get a judge to order the EPA to regulate CO2. This the basis for the woodstove change.

 

[fd15k]

The EPA can suck the biggest log on my woodpile. Burned wood becomes nothing more than particulate matter and dissipates or falls back the the ground harmlessly. Gee, how are they going to control forest fires? The planet is NOT in peril - we are!

Perhaps you can tell them that, because right now they think :

Smoke resulting from improperly burned wood contains many chemical substances that are considered harmful such as hazardous air pollutants (HAPs), fine particle pollution (ash), and volatile organic compounds (VOC).

• HAPs are an important component of wood smoke. A group of HAPs known as polycyclic organic matter includes benzo(a)pyrene, which may cause cancer.
• Particle pollution in smoke can damage lung tissue and lead to serious respiratory problems when breathed in high concentrations. In low concentrations, particle pollution in wood smoke can harm the health of children, the elderly, and those with existing respiratory diseases. EPA has created an extensive Web site related to particle pollution.

<broken link removed>

 

[Bigfoot]

Next they will throw us in jail for farting.

Funny you said that because the EPA has recently announced that they are going to....crack....down....on flatulence. Yup, they want farmers and ranchers to limit methane (causes global warming ya know) from cattle which of course ranchers cant so I assume it's another control/revenue source and another tool for selective enforcement.

The cool crowd lives in large cities and rides a bicycle or public transportation and heats/cools with whatever power source the government approves of. IOW they are dependent and controllable. Cant have independent rural folks running around unregulated.

And they can have my woodstove when they pry it from my hot, charred hands.

 

[OcelotZ3]

Well, I live in a city with a neighbor who insists on burning year-round. There is smoke constantly pouring from his chimney, and it affects all of the neighbors. It affects our throats, makes your house smell like smoke, and we all seem to come down with breathing issues when he burns the most. "Just a few particulates" does not begin to describe the amount of crap that is coming out of his chimney. He says we need to pay him to not burn because he can't afford to run his heat pump, yet he lives in the largest/most expensive house in the neighborhood. Go figure.

 

[Bigfoot]

He sounds like a dic..um..Richard.

A woodstove doesn't put out much smoke if it's operating in it's efficiency range (300 to 550 degrees) and burning seasoned wood. Take up a collection from the neighbors and buy one of those woodstove thermometers. I think mine cost $40. Politely give it to the guy and tell him that using it will make his firewood go much further and you will appreciate the cleaner air. He'll want to start his fire and run it wide open until it reaches 300 and only then turn it down.

Running a stove that's putting out black smoke that's hanging low is just dumb. That's a cold fire.

 

[RVTECH]

There is smoke constantly pouring from his chimney,

Chimney or stove pipe? Please specify

makes your house smell like smoke,

How close are you to it?

Well, I live in a city with a neighbor who insists on burning year-round.

SO he actually burns in the summer, when it's warm/hot outside?
I live in an are where probably 50+% of the people have woodstoves, and have for 30+ years and NO ONE around here complains about 'breathing issues' Have you ever actually had it verified scientifically the smoke from his chimney/stovepipe is causing your 'breathing issues' ? Just wondering because statistically speaking there should be a greater preponderance of people complaining about 'breathing issues' in an area with considerably more woodstove usage (oh, and throw in all of us who burn yard debris AND who have outside fire pits on our property for sitting around at night) Sorry, just wondering because I have NEVER heard anyone complain of a 'breathing issue' around here. BBL - I need to go stoke BOTH of my woodstoves - the one in the house and in the shop.

 

[AMProducts]

Well, I live in a city with a neighbor who insists on burning year-round. There is smoke constantly pouring from his chimney, and it affects all of the neighbors. It affects our throats, makes your house smell like smoke, and we all seem to come down with breathing issues when he burns the most. "Just a few particulates" does not begin to describe the amount of crap that is coming out of his chimney. He says we need to pay him to not burn because he can't afford to run his heat pump, yet he lives in the largest/most expensive house in the neighborhood. Go figure.

Wtf? Yea, sounds like there's something wrong over there... are you sure he's not cooking meth and using a wood fire to cover up the lab smell? Wood in cities isn't cheap, so there's virtually no way he can't afford to run a cheaper gas/electric heater than somehow finding time and money to go obtain massive amounts of wood to burn year round.

Also, as another poster pointed out... hot efficient fires (like those that come from franklin, pot and pellet stoves) are clear, usually they smell only vaguely like wood, because the molecules that smell like wood are broken down into CO2 and water by the fire.

Yea, I think he's running a methlab, which would smell horrible, and have a pretty deletarious effect on your health. If you think about it, that's the only conclusion that can really be supported by your claims.

 

[coctailer]

That's a meth lab.

Mankind has survived for centuries by burning wood to survive. We haven't gone extinct yet.

 

[RVTECH]

If you think about it, that's the only conclusion that can really be supported by your claims.

Either meth lab OR he is burning massive amounts of trash.

 

[fd15k]

Funny you said that because the EPA has recently announced that they are going to....crack....down....on flatulence. Yup, they want farmers and ranchers to limit methane (causes global warming ya know) from cattle which of course ranchers cant so I assume it's another control/revenue source and another tool for selective enforcement.

Cows do produce a lot of methane, and methane is a greenhouse gas, having 23 times more potency than CO2. I assume you don't buy into the whole idea of the man-made global climate change ?

 

[OcelotZ3]

It's a wood stove. It's not a "meth lab".

Yes, he burns on cooler summer days, but most of the time it's fall/winter/spring. On nice days where we might a window slightly open to get fresh air we get wood smoke inside and have to close the window.

Yesterday I was out doing lawn work and had to stop because I was coughing due to the smoke.

I have friends who burn wood for heat (out in the rural areas) and they agree that he is either burning unseasoned wood and/or wood that has been painted or varnished. In addition, the fact that it smokes most of the time probably means he probably isn't burning at the right temperature either. Last summer a neighbor went over and chewed him out because he saw him unload varnished wood from a construction site from his truck for burning. But that doesn't matter, he'll do whatever he wants to. Regarding the cost of wood, he used to work in the wood products industry and he would often get free wood from friends (or he would steal it in the woods, I wouldn't put it past him).

Also, the EPA HAS measured wood smoke and it's not all roses regarding breathing that stuff in. In a rural area where it gets dissipated it's not so much of a problem but in high-density areas it is.

The house in question is at the end of our cul-de-sac, up on a slight hill, and the smoke descends and settles into the cul-de-sac where our houses are. We have a single house in-between us and the wood smoke house, and it's set back. So not much distance or anything in-between us. 0.25 acre lots. Like I said, he's burning in the city.

The neighbors have been complaining for decades about his actions, to no avail. He IS a "richard". We had one couple that had to move away because the smoke was making their son's asthma much worse. They lived right next door.

At the end of last summer, a person we know that lives on another street entirely stopped to talk with us and mentioned how horrible the smoke was.

 

[The Heretic]

I have a woodstove, and it is compliant with the EPA/DEQ standards that were in place when I bought the property 2+ years ago. I rarely burn anything in it as it is just easier to use the furnace.

It does put out smoke when the fire is starting and the stove is not hot yet, which depending on my laziness and skill at firemaking can be half an hour or more.

I will probably burn more this next winter as I now have a lot of firewood left over (alder, short sections, crooked/broken logs, etc.) from thinning operations on my land.

I don't have a problem with gradual improvements/restrictions in the standards for emissions - it is necessary as the population grows.

I do have a problem with the outright banning of gasification boilers. For one thing, some of these are the most efficient and least polluting wood burning appliances you can have for a residence. For another, I wanted to use one in my next house (for hydronic floor heating) and now I learn I can't.

 

[RVTECH]

The neighbors have been complaining for decades about his actions, to no avail.

So what is it you would like to see happen or him to do that would satisfy you and your neighbors?

 

[OcelotZ3]

Don't use wood burning for his heating. He lives in a high-density neighborhood, he has a high efficiency heat pump that came with the house, electricity is cheap here.

Oh, and this guy is so broke that ever since he retired more than 10 years ago, he spends his spare time gambling playing poker or going to the Indian casinos... So being broke was a red herring.

Occasional use is one thing. Every day for 6 months in a row is another.

 

[AMProducts]

Might just want to call the police about the methlab. Even then, if he's burning varnished wood, I'm pretty sure that doesn't qualify as burning wood, but as burning trash. If he doesn't have a permit to operate a residential waste incinerator then he's likely to get in trouble for that.

Also, you're in corvallis, not exactly the north slope in terms of temperatures.

The best solution I can think of is to offer him a big pile of heartwood... that stuff burns like rocket fuel, and he'll probably burn his house down with it, since I doubt he's taken the necessary time to have his flue pipes cleaned properly and a good creosote fire will totally ruin his day.

The other option is to do as the romans... start burning everything. I think you guys have conditions where you can burn yard waste. If all the neighbors are as pissed as you, seems you could all have a nice big funeral pyre going right on his property line for a few weeks towards the fall. Might want to throw a few couches or tires on to help him get the message. Maybe rent some big fans to blow the smoke right on his property. Don't forget to spray it periodically with water to keep it from burning too hot, that should keep it nice and smokey.

What I can say here... is wood fires are not the problem, inconsiderate neighbors are the problem. It seems you're mixing up one aspect of your inconsiderate neighbor with the fact that he's an inconsiderate neighbor whether he was running wood for heat or not. I am a considerate neighbor, which is why I use a silencer.