EPAs new assault on wood stoves

[Mark W.]

WOW our only heat is a 18+ year old KOZI pellet stove we heat our house from about mid Oct through the middle of April. running close to 24 hrs a day every day at least 5 months of the time that we heat it is 24 /7

We use between 2.5 and 2.75 tons of Bear Mountain pellets.
Our house is approx. 1850sq ft some parts are barely heated like the laundry room or my shop (its inside the house.

My little 3" vent pipe angles out through the side wall of the living room to exit about 5 ft off the ground.

My next door neighbors rear deck and hot tub which they use a LOT is within 12-20 ft (depending on the location on the deck bbq area or hot tub area. Their bedroom window is about 18ft from the end of the Vent pipe.

And I have never once heard a complaint from them. And since he is my dispatcher and direct supervisor at work if he was annoyed you can dang well be assured he would voice his opinion.


Now the Jenna Air Down draft electric grill we used to have that was directly across the fence from where they sat and hung out on the deck got complaints all the time. Mostly about not sharing the wonderfull cooking smells from the steaks or chicken etc. Course those we just turned up the fan and laughed our heads off. Which usually caused the neighbor to go fire up his fancy Trager BBq and make us crazy the next night.

 

[soberups]

I don't have a problem with reasonable emission requirements for stoves but the EPA needs to have a more flexible and realistic set of standards that would allow for gasification boilers. Another change that needs to occur is to modify emissions standards for the newer diesel cars so that they could run pure biodiesel. It should factor in the MPG capability of the vehicle and exempt the hyper-efficient small cars from needing DPF's (diesel particulate filters) so that they would be more affordable and be able to run on domestically produced biodiesel. The VW Lupo is available in Europe and can get up to 80 MPG on biodiesel, yet it cant be sold here because it "pollutes" too much. That needs to change. As far as the obnoxious neighbor goes...it should (and probably is) illegal for him to burn construction debris, varnished wood etc. I have a woodstove, but I only burn seasoned wood and I have my stove, catalytic converter and stovepipe cleaned and maintained on a regular basis. Its called being a good neighbor.

 

[Jamie6.5]

So, out of 34,000+ members, one (ocelotZ3) has ONE bad neighbor that doesn't know how to burn his stove/fireplace (pick one).
Ocelot lives in a city with a population in excess of 54,000 people, and is making his argument that all woodstove emissions need to be curtailed, based on a single irresponsible owner/burner.

IMO, this is what lies at the heart of the matter for all of us, on a myriad of subjects, including guns, due to the mindset(s) of OcelotZ3 AND the EPA, the current admin and others like them.
Got ONE problem with ONE person in ONE town? Make a rule or ruleS that adversely affects thousands, and/or MILLIONS.

Blanket regulations due to singular problems are the domain of the intellectually lazy, and morally bankrupt.
This is no different than Carolyn McCarthy's, and Dianne Feinstein's and Chuck Schumer's stance on guns and gun ownership.

Nevermind the notion of dealing directly with the irresponsible individuals as they arise. Make/write/pass a law against it for EVERYONE.
How ludicrous.

 

[OcelotZ3]

Apparently you didn't read that there are many neighbors (10 households that I've personally heard from, probably quite a few more) who have complained about this guy.

And, the fact that wood smoke, weather from good seasoned wood, and even burned properly, emits some very bad chemicals that are not good for you, plus the particles alone are also bad for your lungs. Definitely not something you want in a high-density neighborhood, certainly not for 6-8 months a year nearly every day.

According to Jamie6.5, those wood-burning bans to preserve air quality in places like Medford, Eugene, Oakridge, etc. are just stupid because wood smoke filled air is just fine for you. Yeah, right.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I didn't say that OZ3.
I said you wanting additional laws or regulations imposed on everyone because of ONE bad user/burner was an overreach, and wrong.

And yet, you're still at it, with (apparently) neither the understanding of why imposing additional restrictions on the general populace is wrong, or the meaning of my post.
Carry on.
As long as you do so with the understanding that your audience is shrinking.

Blanket laws/rules/regulations imposed on the general populace are never right when they are based on a single problem from a single source.
The number of people objecting may gain you traction in removing the single-source problem, but that doesn't mean responsible burners should be penalized for the bad judgement of one.

You admit this person is already in violation of existing laws, yet you believe more laws and stricter regulations would help stop him,...
That is the same mindset employed by Chuck Schumer, Dianne Feinstein and Carolyn McCarthy et al in the gun debate.

And it's WRONG.

 

[Bigfoot]

This is how we got laws banning cell phone use while driving. They going to ban talking to a passenger next? Reckless Driving laws are already on the books, charge the inattentive driver with that and leave me alone.

'There should be a law against.............'

That's how we lose our rights.

 

[timac]

Apparently you didn't read that there are many neighbors (10 households that I've personally heard from, probably quite a few more) who have complained about this guy.

And, the fact that wood smoke, weather from good seasoned wood, and even burned properly, emits some very bad chemicals that are not good for you, plus the particles alone are also bad for your lungs. Definitely not something you want in a high-density neighborhood, certainly not for 6-8 months a year nearly every day.

According to Jamie6.5, those wood-burning bans to preserve air quality in places like Medford, Eugene, Oakridge, etc. are just stupid because wood smoke filled air is just fine for you. Yeah, right.

With your indoctrinated reasoning, we should ban or regulate forest fires. They also release these bad chemicals.

 

[NoFlinch]

I had a problem with a neighbor. I approached him and we solved the problem.
I had a problem with another neighbor, and approached him. We solved the problem.

I had a problem with another neighbor, approached him, and he ended up moving away, but that was AFTER I called the cops to get his kids to stop riding their dirt bikes past my house. The kids wouldn't listen to me.

MAN UP DUDE!!!

Personally go talk with him, see if YOU can solve the problem, and get the law involved if you fail.

BUT..........Get a backbone!

(PS. I'm EASY to get along with, if you are a sensible person).
I know, that eliminates a lot of people....

 

[AMProducts]

Ocelot,

You know, it would be great if we could just make it illegal to be a jerk. Problem is, you've got the issue of being a jerk and burning wood mixed up. The same law you want to create to keep this guy from being a jerk is the same law that will keep you from burning wood when the power is out during a cold winter.

Before you respond, imagine your post was written by Diane Feinstein about guns/cars/spraypaint/housepaint/tobacco/beer brewing/bbqing steaks/etc. The law is a blunt instrument, you are trying to excise a splinter, is it necessary to cut off your finger?

 

[OcelotZ3]

Since I last posted, the neighbor has had two flue fires, one tonight. That is now 3 fires at his house that I know of. I suspect that there have been other flue fires that have occurred but the fire department hasn't been called out on.

Oh, and the guy who said to "Man Up" and talk to him? We have. About 10 times. He told us to F*** Off. Same response to other neighbors who have talked with him.

Funny how you all seem to have all the answers.

 

[RVTECH]

Since I last posted, the neighbor has had two flue fires, one tonight. That is now 3 fires at his house that I know of.

Yea and I'll bet he hasn't cleaned his stove pipe in years and the creosote has nearly choked the pipe closed. Ever see him on his roof in the summer dissembling pipe and/or brushing or scraping it? 30 + years of wood stove use and I have have NEVER come close to a flue fire or any other problems for that matter.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

i love my wood stove more than any gun i own. priceless piece of steal. an old heavy fisher stove. big.
you wanna get me talkin, bring up a wood stove.
its a godsend.

 

[U201491]

Well, I live in a city with a neighbor who insists on burning year-round. There is smoke constantly pouring from his chimney, and it affects all of the neighbors. It affects our throats, makes your house smell like smoke, and we all seem to come down with breathing issues when he burns the most. "Just a few particulates" does not begin to describe the amount of crap that is coming out of his chimney. He says we need to pay him to not burn because he can't afford to run his heat pump, yet he lives in the largest/most expensive house in the neighborhood. Go figure.

So you want to regulate his activities of heating his home. Maybe you should spend a year without heat.
Yeah, that would be good.
I suppose you want to regulate his toilet paper too.....................

 

[U201491]

I don't have a problem with reasonable emission requirements for stoves but the EPA needs to have a more flexible and realistic set of standards that would allow for gasification boilers. Another change that needs to occur is to modify emissions standards for the newer diesel cars so that they could run pure biodiesel. It should factor in the MPG capability of the vehicle and exempt the hyper-efficient small cars from needing DPF's (diesel particulate filters) so that they would be more affordable and be able to run on domestically produced biodiesel. The VW Lupo is available in Europe and can get up to 80 MPG on biodiesel, yet it cant be sold here because it "pollutes" too much. That needs to change. As far as the obnoxious neighbor goes...it should (and probably is) illegal for him to burn construction debris, varnished wood etc. I have a woodstove, but I only burn seasoned wood and I have my stove, catalytic converter and stovepipe cleaned and maintained on a regular basis. Its called being a good neighbor.

Yeah Kind of like regulating reasonable magazine capacity..... Give me a break. It is what people have heated with for thousands of years before the Yippie yuppie control freaks were unleashed on the earth................................Now, they are the real danger and health risk to the people of this planet.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Since I last posted, the neighbor has had two flue fires, one tonight. That is now 3 fires at his house that I know of. I suspect that there have been other flue fires that have occurred but the fire department hasn't been called out on.

Oh, and the guy who said to "Man Up" and talk to him? We have. About 10 times. He told us to F*** Off. Same response to other neighbors who have talked with him.

Funny how you all seem to have all the answers.

We may not have the answer, but it sounds like he does.
If he's experiencing that many flue fires, then it's a problem that is very likely to solve itself.

No chimney, no house, no neighbor,... No problem!

But hey, you tried to warn him right?

 

[Member 5605]

Ocelot;

You and I live in the same town. I'm curious what culdesac this house is on. I'm just curious myself to the amount of smoke from the chimney. This thread has me intreagued.


I chuckle as well because you live in Corvallis... While neighbors complain in this town (and many do a lot about everything)... Some still can't figure out how to ride bicycles in the bike lane, how to pick up their dogs feces in my yard, not smoke pot on their front porch, get in arguments with their significant other in the street, not call the police over stupidthat could be resolved by getting to know your neighbor.

If my wife didn't have an extremely successful job at a local business we would be out of this town and relocating next door to RV.

Some people in this liberal town get but hurt be aide their neighbor drives a diesel, doesn't compost or likes to carry their guns out to their car.

I do understand I have a child with acute asthma... Check the municipal code.. There may be something to help.

 

[RVTECH]

If my wife didn't have an extremely successful job at a local business we would be out of this town and relocating next door to RV.

Yea but then you would have to put up with cleaner air, no one burning in the summer time, respectful neighbors, peace and quiet - but you would have to question the actions of this one guy who is often seen open carrying on his quad, working on guns in his shop or carrying several out to his Jeep and leaving for hours at a time......

 

[IheartSig]

I don't understand. I grew up with a wood stove in our house. Why is it all of a sudden such a huge deal when they are fewer and far between now as opposed to 20 years ago.

And stop me if you heard this one but...centuries of mankind surviving on wood fires and ..... now its an issue?

And if one house produces so much smoke that it forces 10 houses to go inside or choke or even notice beyond a whiff in the air, they are either not burning wood or the whole neighborhood is too sensitive.

 

[U201491]

I don't understand. I grew up with a wood stove in our house. Why is it all of a sudden such a huge deal when they are fewer and far between now as opposed to 20 years ago.

And stop me if you heard this one but...centuries of mankind surviving on wood fires and ..... now its an issue?

And if one house produces so much smoke that it forces 10 houses to go inside or choke or even notice beyond a whiff in the air, they are either not burning wood or the whole neighborhood is too sensitive.

Yep, no one can just live and let live anymore. A nation of control freaks........................
Exact same mentality that allows incremental antigun laws,

 

[RVTECH]

they are either not burning wood or the whole neighborhood is too sensitive.

OP originally mentioned they were burning year round so I suspect they are burning trash which can be pretty smelly and in a close environment such as this it I can see where it 'might' be a problem HOWEVER - the flip side of this is because it IS a city environment ANY deviation from 'normal' scents in the air might be a cause for someone to complain no matter how slight the smell is. My point being where I live a day does not go by without smelling smoke - from either woodstoves or slash piles. Up until they shut down open burning there are smoke plumes rising from up to several houses at any given time. It's simply an element of rural living and I LOVE IT!