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Education

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by RicInOR, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The One is on record this morning of saying he would like the Government to Pay for Everyone to have a Community College degree.

    As We the People are the Government, I respond TEA ! (Taxed Enough Already)

    If you want to change education, and ignoring high school and below, what we need is a Technical Degree.

    ah, just remembered the gun reference, Way back when Jimmy Carter was The One, Oregon Institute of Technology had a Gun Smithing Degree program. Technical. They also instructed other technical programs in stuff like Electronics and Computers.

    I have been in the high tech world since graduating high school. I work with people who have a Computer Science Degree and those who have a Computer Engineering Degree. I have come to the conclusion that CS is really a CA - Computer Arts degree. If you have any Arts degree, to get work you show a portfolio of your work to prospective employers. CS often work project to project so that fits, they show a portfolio (sample programs) so that fits. (BA in Music = demo tape or auditions, BA Acting = Auditions, BA Photography = portfolio, etc)
    Engineers typically have to be licensed - we do things to some agreed upon standard. Whether building, or removal ( including Sewage,) there is a standard and you can be held to account for that.

    What we do not have is a Tech Degree. It used to be you wouldn't need a post-high school degree to work, but for many people this is now a reality. If you weld, for example, you still need to be able to read and prepare a budget, understand what an estimate involves, follow government regulations. Same for many other workers. Technicians, whether in the hospital or the industrial plant work with their minds and their hands. There could/should be an AT / BT / MT degree. Those should still start in high school- but that is a different problem for a different thread.

    So. Mr. President. I call you out on your make work for traditional democrat members/voters the teachers unions and your make work program - community college. It isn't free, won't be free, and you are selling us another pack of bubblegum. If you really want to do something, get the DoE to create these paths to Technical workers, and honor them with an appropriate degree program. OIT used to do that, start there.

    If you want to leverage the efforts of others, some people look to: Mike Rowe and Caterpillar.
     
  2. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes you look past what the story is to see what the outcome will be. So they give you a CC education but then how will you live in that two years without an income? Guess they will give you an income too. So who really gets the guaranteed income from this? Yep the CC does and what kind of education or indoctrination will students receive? Will it be computer courses with no hands on training?

    Lots to look at on this.
     
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  3. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I think this is one of those issues that needs to be viewed well below the surface to get at reality. First, not all people NEED an education at that level. Why spend the money if they don't have to have it? That seems like a big waste of money. There will always, always, always be jobs out there for people with less education.

    And what about the folks that can't even be bothered to finish high school in the first place? Or can't (or won't), maintain a decent GPA to even get into college?

    As the OP noted, technical degrees and even apprenticeships are very good tools. I did several years of college myself and never did finish, but moved into an apprenticeship that has led me into a career spanning the last 20 years - a very good career. I've got no complaints, and I don't even have a degree ;)
     
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  4. BoonDocks36

    BoonDocks36 Oregon, in the boondocks Christian. Conservative. Male.

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    Meh... Ask any College or University, they will tell you that the Average High School Graduate, does not have enough Real Education, to Make it as a Student. They need classes in the 98/99 level, rather than the regular starting point of 100/101 classes.

    That is due, One Hundred Percent upon the Lack of ~Correct~ Education Principals in the K-12 System. There Are good examples of Correct Methods in Education, an example is the State of Georgia.

    Once, it was the Lowest Level, of all Fifty states, now it is Always within the "Top Five" States.

    One of the Most Important changes was No one is Advanced to the Next Grade, until they have Completed ALL of the WORK for Current Grade!!!!

    Duh, that makes too much ~Cents~ As in they Saved Money, by that Choice!!!!

    The next thing they did, was, Advance at YOUR OWN rate. If you could Pass the State Required Testing for your Grade, they did NOT HOLD YOU BACK, for the rest of the Year... Again, does that Make CENTS?

    But you have to be Intelligent, for implementing these sorts of Standards.

    I recall, my Senior Year in High School... I took a "Bone Head Math Class" to refresh that subject, as I knew I was Enlisting into the US ARMY... Well, cut the Bait...

    We had a sharp teacher, who gave us individual instructions... I ended up Studying Calculus... To a Point, that I surpassed my Teachers Knowledge, who was a Mathamatics Major, and Minored to get his teaching Credential!!!!!

    I guess that is me for now, I got my Five Right toes into a right Shoe, along with the rest of the foot... And I got Five Liberal Toes, into that Left Shoe, along with the rest of the Foot...

    That is Ten Toes, ready to go shopping, Regardless of Obammies Common Kore EdEKaShunal changes... I am going shopping now.

    philip :D
     
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  5. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    Why not hold high school diploma standards to those which most employers are looking for? Oh, yeah. That's too much of a challenge to ask k-12 educators to educate and shyt-can those that don't.
     
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  6. timac

    timac Loading Magazines! Well-Known Member

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    I smell the NEA is behind this idea. More control, more power!

    NEA on the Administration’s Community Colleges Proposal
    NEA’s Lily Eskelsen García: Education has always been the gateway to success

    WASHINGTON - January 09, 2015 -

    President Obama today will propose to offer 2 years of tuition-free education for hardworking students. National Education Association President Lily Eskelsen García reiterated NEA’s commitment to provide an affordable college education to all students:

    “We applaud the Administration’s effort to make college more affordable for more students. Education has always been the gateway to success and far too many students are graduating with mountains of debt. At a time when post-secondary education has become even more important, students and their families are scrambling to pay for that education.

    “The devil is always in the details but the President is right to continue pushing to make the dream of a college education more attainable for more students and families. And we can’t forget to invest in faculty and staff to ensure our students are receiving the quality education they deserve.

    “We hope that Congress can work together with the Administration to make this a successful, sustainable program, as access to an affordable, quality post-secondary education for all students who want it is crucial to our success as a nation.”

    Follow us on twitter twitter.com/NEAMedia

    # # #

    The National Education Association is the nation’s largest professional employee organization, representing 3 million elementary and secondary teachers, higher education faculty, education support professionals, school administrators, retired educators, and students preparing to become teachers.
     
  7. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

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    Two more years of indoctrination!?!?!?!?!?

    Sheldon
     
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  8. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I'd be more impressed if more Americans simply knew which end of a hammer to grab, let alone actually be able to physically lift it since its heavier than a keyboard or smartphone. :rolleyes:
     
  9. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    If the o-Bum suggested it, then it will be indoctrination.

    But hell I will take a free Gunsmith degree ROFLOL.

    Seriously ...........be very suspect of this bs as you will be paying for everyone else and they will be subjected to brainwashing against American Values. That will be a sure thing.............
     
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  10. Classic

    Classic Federal Way WA Well-Known Member

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    Obama is a whore trying to buy votes for Bilary. I have already paid for one college education for my son and am now working on a 2nd. I told him he would never go hungry and never be cold but after the 1st college education he was going to have to be responsible for the 2nd. Needless to say, he has dinner here every night and drinks my bourbon every night but he is on the hook for the lasted degree. He is now a junior on the Deans list busting his a$$ while holding down a full time job. Screw Potus, if they want to get out of the gutter they will bust their butt to get out like my son. 15 credits and a full time job. Obamy you can take your credits and STUFF THEM!
     
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  11. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I have three kids in college ATM, with another one starting next year, then two more the year after that.

    I've told all of them that they'll have to work out their own way through, just like I did (Army College Fund). I told them I was not going to fund the process of them becoming alchoholics and ametuer "frat party porn stars" that everyone could watch on YouTube. I also said I will not be co-signing for college loans, but as long as they were going full time they could work part-time and pay as they go (or scholarships) and could still live at home.

    My oldest is into her third year for a BA @ PSU to become a speech therapist, my next oldest is just finishing up her AA this year with the goal of going into law enforcement, the one after her is into his first year of his AA with the goal of becoming a teacher or perhaps a clergyman.

    None of them have any student loan debts, and get decent grades!


    YOU CAN DUE EEET!!!o_O:rolleyes::D;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  12. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Seriously.. Free college?
    What and where is the cuttoff?
    Me as a business owner with no formal "college" education can I go back and freeload for two years?
    Or is is just illegal 18-21 year olds?

    Worst yet.. Kids think this stuff really is free..
    Its bad enough with this healthcare BS!
    Yeah.. Like I really have an extra $115-$200 a month (extortion by the way) to pay for "healthcare" that Im STILL going to have to pay for out of pocket until I hit my deductible which is around $5500+.. I go to the doc once a year if that. Id rather just pay his office/service fee. Yes its a lot up front but its better than getting scammed 11 other months out of the year.

    I seriously hope a wave of killer viruses takes out half the country.. I just cant opperate under this.. IM SICK OF HAVING TO ADAPT, let those GD-MF'ers adapt to ME for a change.
    Late on my (non existant tax return)
    $2500 fine
    Wasting my time at the DMV/DEQ or in court: I charge by the hour, my rate is $135
    (It actually is)

    How about that government?!
    I need a drink and a pretty lady to come and calm me down.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
  13. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I feel ya ZA, I'm $110 an hour and HATE HATE HATE non-billable time during the day, not to mention looking at my gross vs net columns on the paycheck every week!

    :rolleyes::mad:
     
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  14. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    I have to drink every time I add up my paycheck and see the taxes Im paying.. ;)
     
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  15. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    This is what you should expect if the government mandates a CC degree.
    Personally, I think two years in the armed forces would maybe give some of these wastrels a backbone and a direction in life besides just knocking up women to dumb to run away.

     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
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  16. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    ...And thats where and to who our taxes go.
    Awesome.
    Now we get to pay for their college!?
    Outstanding.
     
  17. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    dam... that "man-boy" is truly impressed wif hissef. :rolleyes:
     
  18. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Please.... check out Oregon graduation rates. Most high school students need remedial math and English. High school graduates are prepared to make a living as baristas or burger flippers. There is no way an student can currently graduate from high school and make any kind of wage. Impossible.

    The idea of a tech degree or certificate is a good idea, but in reality, those types of jobs have been in decline for the last 10 years. You either are going to have a minimum bachelors degree, journeyman trades certification, and even that may not get you 50K a year. The mid range tech type jobs in the 40K to 60K have all been eliminated. You are either going to work for 80K plus or under 36K. I just spent 5 days in the Southern Oregon / NorCal area and I always check out the real estate and job postings. Pretty pathetic what they pay in those areas. No wonder the economies suck so bad.

    As far as free college ??? Complete bullshi*. I paid for every bit of my college education, 3 years at OSU, and 3 years of night school at PCC. Never a dimes worth of college loan debt. Just short of a Bachelors degree in Ag Engineering and an associates in Business Administration.

    Want a "free" college education ?? Do what my boys did...join the military, do your 4 years, let some rag head son of a botch shoot at you, and come home intact. The VA will pay for your college education then. 1 Bachelors degree, 1 journeyman plumber, and 1 firefighter paramedic.

    They fing earned it. Novel idea I know .
     
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  19. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Don' forget to add the taxes on the booze you are drinking too.
     
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  20. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Thats it, Im going to go bald prematurely.
    Fists of hair will be pulled out. ;)