Educate the moron about sight zeroing?

[Diamondback]

With all the talk out there about various zeroes out there and the pros and cons of each sailing way over my head, I need some help from you guys, especially our veterans who carried rifles in combat. What's your zero of choice and why?

For a more applied example, as y'all might recall I've been building an AR-pistol PDW (10.3" 5.56 NATO, basically a Mk 18 with brace instead of stock) primarily focused on CQB, but with intent to have a secondary capability of precision hits in the 350-400yd range. It carries a laser, an RDS and a fixed-front/folding-rear set of irons. Would you zero all three sights on this beast the same, or split them up for short- and long-range roles, and how would you zero the thing and why?

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[Kruel J]

Not military here, but for an AR pistol I would sight it in at 50-100 yards. To be honest, there really ain't jack difference at those distances.

 

[Kruel J]

And "precision hits" from an AR pistol is asking quite a lot more than that platform is designed to handle.

 

[Diamondback]

For clarity, when I say "pistol" we're talking a Mk 18 with no stock. 10.3" 5.56. "Precision" being maybe not "minute of angle" but at least "minute of badguy", preferably "minute of BG head".

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Not military here, but for an AR pistol I would sight it in at 50-100 yards. To be honest, there really ain't jack difference at those distances.

for a 5.56 a 50yard zero is ideal. puts you at 200-225yrd and then usually its about 7MOA elevation for 400 after that.

atleast mine is.

 

[Stomper]

With all the talk out there about various zeroes out there and the pros and cons of each sailing way over my head, I need some help from you guys, especially our veterans who carried rifles in combat. What's your zero of choice and why?

For a more applied example, as y'all might recall I've been building an AR-pistol PDW (10.3" 5.56 NATO, basically a Mk 18 with brace instead of stock) primarily focused on CQB, but with intent to have a secondary capability of precision hits in the 350-400yd range. It carries a laser, an RDS and a fixed-front/folding-rear set of irons. Would you zero all three sights on this beast the same, or split them up for short- and long-range roles, and how would you zero the thing and why?

Dude, everything following is IMHO


First.... hitting targets @300 meters with a 20" barrel is a tough challenge for most people. If you consistently hit targets at 200 meters with a 10.5" barrel you'd be doing pretty good. I'm not saying you can't go further, but it'll take a lot of rounds down range to get good enough.

Second.... zero them all the same if you ever plan to use this "under stress" where fine motor skills go out the window. Unless your SOF and shoot 10k rounds a week in the shoot-houses preppin' for a mission, and eat-sleep-sheite-shower with you weapon literally in your hand for weeks/months at a pop... then kit up for gross motor-skill usage.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Dude, everything following is IMHO


First.... hitting targets @300 meters with a 20" barrel is a tough challenge for most people. If you consistently hit targets at 200 meters with a 10.5" barrel you'd be doing pretty good. I'm not saying you can't go further, but it'll take a lot of rounds down range to get good enough.

Second.... zero them all the same if you ever plan to use this "under stress" where fine motor skills go out the window. Unless your SOF and shoot 10k rounds a week in the shoot-houses preppin' for a mission, and eat-sleep-sheite-shower with you weapon literally in your hand for weeks/months at a pop... then kit up for gross motor-skill usage.

as long as its "A" target youre hitting the target right @Stomper

 

[Kruel J]

Dude, everything following is IMHO


First.... hitting targets @300 meters with a 20" barrel is a tough challenge for most people. If you consistently hit targets at 200 meters with a 10.5" barrel you'd be doing pretty good. I'm not saying you can't go further, but it'll take a lot of rounds down range to get good enough.

Second.... zero them all the same if you ever plan to use this "under stress" where fine motor skills go out the window. Unless your SOF and shoot 10k rounds a week in the shoot-houses preppin' for a mission, and eat-sleep-sheite-shower with you weapon literally in your hand for weeks/months at a pop... then kit up for gross motor-skill usage.

So basically at that length of barrel, get good at 50-100. Learn your irons/optic and hold over as needed.

 

[Diamondback]

Thanks, @Stomper--precisely the kind of BTDT take I was hoping for. TBH, I've long wished for an RDS to come along with either multiple programmable zeroes, or a self-adjusting zero based on the trajectory of loaded round and range measured by an integrated laser rangefinder...

 

[Stomper]

as long as its "A" target youre hitting the target right @Stomper

Hmmm.... not sure if you're drink-typing.... or listening to the LIES @SKrueger has been telling about me again.

 

[stick655]

I'll try to keep this as clear and coherent as possible. What I would do is some research about the trajectory of the rounds you will be shooting the majority of the time, in order to figure out what distance to sight in at. Example: we zeroed our M16A2's in at 36 yards with the iron sights - the result is that the projectile will have the same POI at 300 yards. Of course, our rear sights had an elevation knob so shooting at unknown distances required a bit of guesswork, but it was all still very reliable. That being said, all the data coming back from the desert indicated that most gunfights are going to take place within 100 yards in an urban environment.

I would be curious to see at what distance you could reach out and touch someone with a 10.3" barrel. But if your intentions were mine, with three different systems to sight in, I'd probably set the RDS and laser for within a 100 yards and the irons for longer distances. If this were my personal setup I'd sight all three of them in for within 100 yards.

FWIW, and good luck.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

i shoot 400yrd regularly with my 16" ar15. its zeroed at 50/200ish im guessing if you adjust 3moa up at 300 and 7moa ip at 400 you'll be darn close

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Hmmm.... not sure if you're drink-typing.... or listening to the LIES @SKrueger has been telling about me again.

im definately doing both

 

[Kruel J]

i shoot 400yrd regularly with my 16" ar15. its zeroed at 50/200ish im guessing if you adjust 3moa up at 300 and 7moa ip at 400 you'll be darn close

From 200-400 is just a few clicks.

 

[Stomper]

Thanks, @Stomper--precisely the kind of BTDT take I was hoping for. TBH, I've long wished for an RDS to come along with either multiple programmable zeroes, or a self-adjusting zero based on the trajectory of loaded round and range measured by an integrated laser rangefinder...

Gadgets will never replace skills, skills only develop with practice, practice takes time.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

From 200-400 is just a few clicks.

28 on my scope which is 7 moa

 

[Member 34319]

I usually only have irons on most of my rifles. I zero at 100 for those that are rifle caliber. 50 for pistol and rimfire.

 

[Kruel J]

With the right reticle, holdover is pretty easy. Especially for elevation. It's just gravity.......

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

44" of drop from 200-400

edited the drop

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

edit 44" of drop with a 50/200yrd zero from 200 to 400yrd