Dodged a bullet, $7500 fine

[41mag]

"Why are state police using public resources to patrol land owned by private timber companies?"

Just to present "the other side": 1) whatever the line/boundary may be, one side of it IS "public lands"; 2) that 'private timber company' has as much access public LEO presence to assist in maintaining 'private property rights' as the rest of us want; given the absurd levels of dumping, property damage, various confusion by those too dumb/young/stoned/drunk/ig'nant to understand their opportunity to trespass is NOT a given right to do such.

Access to private land can be withdrawn at any time.

 

[CLT65]

I totally get the "slob shooter" problem. I've seen enough shot-up garbage dumped in the woods to understand why property owners would limit access. I've also cleaned up more than my share of it too, including on our own land growing up. I have absolutely no regard for dumpers and slob shooters.

What spoiled my day that time was the over-the-top rudeness of the Weyerhauser guy, treating us like criminals when we actually had garbage bags along with plans to leave the place cleaner than before.

In his defense, it's entirely possible that he had run into plenty of slob shooters that had treated him badly and he was ready for a fight, or maybe his wife had yelled at him over breakfast, or whatever. Either way I will avoid their land like the plague, and would recommend others do the same. They are serious, and they are not nice about it.

On the other hand, I am impressed by the work some on this forum have done in cleaning up the legitimate shooting spots, educating shooters, and outreach to Forest Service officials. Cogs, I believe, is the one heading up this sort of thing. Hats off to you Cogs!

 

[Mikej]

I totally get the "slob shooter" problem. I've seen enough shot-up garbage dumped in the woods to understand why property owners would limit access. I've also cleaned up more than my share of it too, including on our own land growing up. I have absolutely no regard for dumpers and slob shooters.

What spoiled my day that time was the over-the-top rudeness of the Weyerhauser guy, treating us like criminals when we actually had garbage bags along with plans to leave the place cleaner than before.

In his defense, it's entirely possible that he had run into plenty of slob shooters that had treated him badly and he was ready for a fight, or maybe his wife had yelled at him over breakfast, or whatever. Either way I will avoid their land like the plague, and would recommend others do the same. They are serious, and they are not nice about it.

On the other hand, I am impressed by the work some on this forum have done in cleaning up the legitimate shooting spots, educating shooters, and outreach to Forest Service officials. Cogs, I believe, is the one heading up this sort of thing. Hats off to you Cogs!

I would think some "Hot Rod", like the guy that blocked you in with his vehicle. Really? Doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. He may someday come upon some nut, dropping garbage to shoot, that has warrants and not going to go IN for "Felon in Position"! The guy's got bigger nads than me to be confronting/blockading people he doesn't know that have fire arms, out in the middle of no-where!

 

[41mag]

Agree with the hazards of unknown for all of us in such confrontations.

I have known about a 1/2 dozen 'company watchmen' over the years for various logging companies. Their crusty/aggressive/confrontation/general demeanor has been more a reflection of individual personalities filtering whatever personal daily stresses of the moment.

Years ago I was visiting a 'fire watchman' at a remote site and saw him switch from congenial to brittle hard-bubblegum in a moment when challenged by a pickup load of idiots who sorely needed revision of their social skills. Considering he was 70+ and about an hour from pavement facing a load of wild eyed hooligans, his attitude shift was understandable. Still, he never approached the 'block 'em from escaping' tactic.

That guy must have known he had LEO backup close at hand, and probably did have considerable confrontation from previous idiots.

It's a job I wouldn't take for sure.

 

[CLT65]

I suppose if you deal with idiots and dirtbags every day it would be easy to treat everyone you run into like a dirtbag or an idiot. However, we were completely polite and apologetic so he really had no cause whatsoever to treat us the way he did.

The officer on the other hand, who had apparently been just down the trail, was professional. He was pretty cool about it after he realized that we were the responsible, law abiding type. I politely pressed it a little, and he admitted that we weren't doing anything wrong, other than thinking about target shooting. I have no hard feelings toward the officer at all. I have good friends in law enforcement and have heard some stories. I really respect those that do that job with a professional attitude.

 

[41mag]

CLT65: agree you did a fine job of defusing the situation, and I appreciate your careful description of the scenario.

I've seen far too many petty tyrant retiree-cum-semi-official in some self aggrandized position acting just as you describe. They are often without suitable training or any hint of professional competence a regular LEO must exhibit.

This is another reason having roving backup LEOs available is a reasonable idea. They have a radio, recognized legal authority, and immediate power to trump whatever escalation of idiocy the current jack wagon chooses.

Put the 2 loads of drunks last night and the meth head 10 minutes ago jamming the rent-a-cop who has only his imagination and a stern lecture from the evil property owner about how to keep HIS job, my bet is often 'caustic' is not that unusual.

 

[Martini_Up]

Access to private land can be withdrawn at any time.

I wish it were always closed. I don't ever want to make the mistake of unknowingly trespassing on private land and then getting my property forfeited as well as a fine and maybe worse.

Most in the Pac NW are spoiled with the access to public lands... I visit Texas often and there is virtually no public lands there. Each time I visit to hunt, it's always on private land.

 

[Mecanik]

Trespassing is normally civil law. That would require them to sue you in civil court and would have to prove willful and knowingly entering private land.
To prove criminal trespass and levy a fine or jail would require you to commit a crime on the property such as destruction of property. Accidentally entering property that is not posted or marked would be a civil violation. The officer was exaggerating the penalty and an attorney could help you immensely.

 

[Samoht]

Just an FYI folks, if you find yourself accidentally on Weyerhaeuser land while target practicing, it's trespassing with a firearm. An A Misdemeanor. Your firearms will be seized as evidence/proof.
Screw Weyerhaeuser.

 

[Cortes]

I thought I found a good place today for distance.

turns out up to the red line is state forest and the blue line goes into Weyerhaeuser land. No roads into the area. Not sure how you would know

View attachment 286129

Couple of years ago I bought the hunting maps addition for my Garmin GPS. It displays the landowner information right on the map. You can look at it on your computer or on your GPS. So you can easily know who's land you are on or near. I like it because I can find out who the landowner is and contact them for permission in the case of private land, or know for sure that I am OK on public land.

Interestingly, Lone Rock Timber, or LRT on the map, has a big yellow gate installed on a road to their property near my cabin where I like to hunt. What makes me unhappy is that the gate is on BLM land about a quarter of a mile from where LRT land starts. So BLM let them put the gate on public land to block access to their private land.

Here's where I got the maps, they are excellent!
http://www.huntinggpsmaps.com/

 

[salmonriverjohn]

I use onXhunt on my IPhone, it's an excellent resource for property info.
There was a post here on this site recently where a fellow member gave explicit directions to "a great spot to shoot" that I recognized as Private timber property and which is clearly marked at every gate.
I posted back as he had given mile marker info for others to follow, he clearly had to know as it had been posted for years.
This property is open to walk in during hunting season, but you can count on it that it wouldn't be with guys like my "fellow member" advising others to go shoot on others clearly posted land, just what we need eh?

 

[armedandsafe]

This is absolute bullbubblegum! Why are state police using public resources to patrol land owned by private timber companies?

Why should police be allowed to help protect any person's property?
Why should the police be allowed to arrest anyone for trespassing on another person's property?
Why should the police be expected to come to your aid when you call for help?

Pops

 

[nwwoodsman]

Why should police be allowed to help protect any person's property?
Why should the police be allowed to arrest anyone for trespassing on another person's property?
Why should the police be expected to come to your aid when you call for help?

Pops

Why shouldn't the police spend days on end parked in front of my house to catch potential trespassers or just question people driving by to see if they had intentions of trespassing? If it's good enough for Weyco it should be good enough for the rest of us.

 

[kilimanjaro]

Look at it from the landowner's point of view.

Somebody owns every acre of land out there, a timber company, public agency, whatever. Find out who owns it and contact them for permission. Even National Forest and BLM land open to the public comes with rules, and a lot of the public could care less about them.

It's not just slob shooters. The public has changed. Landowners are discovering pot farms and drug lab sites on their property, and being stuck with the cleanup bills. Folks will take a truckload of garbage up a road and dump it ten miles from town to save a ten dollar dump fee. Hazardous and medical waste is being dumped. Roads and meadows damaged by off-roaders. Employees are being threatened and equipment shot at or vandalized. Anyone allowing public access to their property is just signing a blank check for cleanup and liability costs.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

"§ 105.700¹

Prohibiting public access to private land
• notice requirements
• damages

(1) In addition to and not in lieu of any other damages that may be claimed, a plaintiff who is a landowner shall receive liquidated damages in an amount not to exceed $1,000 in any action in which the plaintiff establishes that:

(a) The plaintiff closed the land of the plaintiff as provided in subsection (2) of this section; and

(b) The defendant entered and remained upon the land of the plaintiff without the permission of the plaintiff."

 

[whiskeybill]

Trespass patrols are not a new thing. I suppose I can argue the use of public resources (tax payer funded enforcement, etc.) but that is kind of besides the point. I imagine the state patrols are likely looking in on private property while in the neighborhood. There is plenty of other bad activity going on out there besides some fellas just wanting to go plinking. Recall the good old days when the eco fascists were vandalizing logging equipment? Spiking trees and other activity? A good friend was a field mechanic for Pacific Detroit Diesel years ago and he spent a lot of time up in the woods repairing what the tree huggers damaged, and it could be pretty expensive. Even more so than littering, it REALLY ruined it for the rest of us.

 

[MADrtcw]

There was a similar case posted on waguns where a person was due in court and facing fines and the discussion came up as to the Weyerhauser employee having the legal right to block a person from leaving(AKA) detainment over trespassing where not crime was committed. So if if you end up in court make sure you subpoena the Weyerhauser employee and the LEO. The LEO will admit the Weyerhauser employee detained you tell he got there. Filing charges against the employee may get the case dropped at that point and if they don't then he/she will be fined for illegal detainment. Of course get a lawyer to make sure all this can be done.

 

[CLT65]

I should clarify what happened to us. I have friends in law enforcement (county and state), and know a little bit about the proper way to behave in situations like this.

The Weyerhauser security guy blocked us in. I was very polite and and apologetic despite his demeanor; I calmly apologized for our mistake and told him we would leave immediately if we were where we weren't supposed to be. He replied angrily that we absolutely were NOT going to leave, that there was a state cop down the road that would want to talk to us. I asked him calmly, politely, and firmly "Do you have the legal authority to detain us?"

He immediately got visibly angry. He said no, but if we left, the cops would chase us down and arrest us. He then tore off, peeling out and throwing gravel as he left in the direction he had said the officer was. I would have been inclined to just leave at that point but I wasn't driving, and my friend who was driving was scared and not going anywhere. In retrospect we had every right to leave but I think it was the right thing to do to stay and talk to the officer. As out of control as the security guy was it was best to get the situation resolved then and there.

All in all I'm glad it happened because of what I learned. I talked it over with a life-long friend in law enforcement and he told me that he thought I did everything right, with the exception of not being sure of where we were and that it was OK to shoot there in the first place.

Just because you and everyone else has shot there for years doesn't make it OK. This is why I really appreciate the work of some on this forum in regards to outdoor public shooting areas. We are lucky to have some public lands around to enjoy, where we can go shoot. It's not always easy to know the right places to go that are safe and legal.

 

[41mag]

re: "If it's good enough for Weyco it should be good enough for the rest of us.".....yes....as soon as you and I have a couple quadrillion acres to care for, closely bordering on as much public forest land and untold miles of rivers and other ecosystems, I'm sure we can make suitable arrangements.

 

[41mag]

The USFS itself has a very thinly stretched 'LEO' line who are responsible for everything from campsite fights/dumping/felonious and misdemeanor violations/public safety/actual theft of such as increasingly rare red cedar and mountain yew wood trees, theft of ferns/branches/mushrooms/moss/illegal tree cutting/drug manufacturing and a host of others.

I'd be a cranky crazed geezer too if I had stepped into that kind of scene under the theory of being just a quiet retirement fire watchman.