Do they use human like target in basic handgun classes

[mpmax]

"Shooting human silhouettes in basic training was easy, I just imaged they were touching my stuff."
Francis "Psycho" Soyer

 

[WillametteWill]

I did a class not too long ago where the shooters were, what I would say, mostly advanced beginner to intermediate level. Most of them knew me from previous sessions. Wanting to slightly ramp up a self-defense type scenario I simply placed t-shirts on cardboard uspsa targets. Some commented to me after that it was very strange and I believe one used the word, "disturbing" to shoot at targets with clothing. That was what I was seeking as the group was ready to explore what self-defense and firearms means. The possibility of shooting a person to defend your life. A subject that clearly is not to be taken lightly or with a cavalier attitude as so many do (absolutely not directed to anyone on this thread or forum...just spend 15 minutes in a gun store or gun show). And a situation that we spend much of the training teaching them how to avoid.

I would not recommend this with new shooters. Want to really freak people out? Use 3D targets with clothing.

 

[CRBMoA]

I did a class not too long ago where the shooters were, what I would say, mostly advanced beginner to intermediate level. Most of them knew me from previous sessions. Wanting to slightly ramp up a self-defense type scenario I simply placed t-shirts on cardboard uspsa targets. Some commented to me after that it was very strange and I believe one used the word, "disturbing" to shoot at targets with clothing. That was what I was seeking as the group was ready to explore what self-defense and firearms means. The possibility of shooting a person to defend your life. A subject that clearly is not to be taken lightly or with a cavalier attitude as so many do (absolutely not directed to anyone on this thread or forum...just spend 15 minutes in a gun store or gun show). And a situation that we spend much of the training teaching them how to avoid.

I would not recommend this with new shooters. Want to really freak people out? Use 3D targets with clothing.

I like that.

I had no guide when I got back into guns a few years ago.

But I spent about a year's worth of bedtimes watching people defend themselves or take dirt naps trying and I am glad I did.

 

[Cavedweller]

The remake of 'True Grit' followed the Charles Portis novel much more closely than the original

Interesting that you say that, because I read the book before I saw the original movie and I recall the movie dialogue as being almost word for word from the book. But, it's been a long time. I thought the remake came in a poor second.

I still think the original is one of the best westerns ever made, along with "Will Penny" and the original "Shane."

 

[Mikej]

I did a class not too long ago where the shooters were, what I would say, mostly advanced beginner to intermediate level. Most of them knew me from previous sessions. Wanting to slightly ramp up a self-defense type scenario I simply placed t-shirts on cardboard uspsa targets. Some commented to me after that it was very strange and I believe one used the word, "disturbing" to shoot at targets with clothing. That was what I was seeking as the group was ready to explore what self-defense and firearms means. The possibility of shooting a person to defend your life. A subject that clearly is not to be taken lightly or with a cavalier attitude as so many do (absolutely not directed to anyone on this thread or forum...just spend 15 minutes in a gun store or gun show). And a situation that we spend much of the training teaching them how to avoid.

I would not recommend this with new shooters. Want to really freak people out? Use 3D targets with clothing.

Interesting. When I first started getting into guns in 2010 I was open to everything you use guns for. If a person were taking a self defense class I'd think the t-shirts would be THE way to do it.

I've carried a blade on my belt every day since shortly after I moved to Portland in 1983. (Only pulled it once when to drunk bothers, flipping me crap, followed me out of the bar late one night. My attitude musta' convinced them I'd use it) We moved into a less than great hood. Some one comes at me, or Wifey, intending to do harm, I'll have no qualms about opening them up. If I had a gun, same deal. Some how I figure that's the mindset you have to have from the start?

 

[tac]

Are you suggesting we should make the process more difficult than it already is to buy a firearm in the US? Enough damage has already been done to our 2A rights trying to fix stupid.

We could also change our legal system so you are guilty until proven innocent. No doubt we would lock up more criminals. Do away with our 4A rights and I'm sure the government would catch a ton of terrorists. Mandate vaccines and I'm sure fewer people would die from Covid. Hitler took power on his second attempt without breaking a law. The Germans overwhelming supported reforms forfeiting their freedoms to combat communism and within a decade people were being marched by the train load into gas chambers. The benefits of making gun ownership SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO difficult are far outweighed by the costs. No compromise.

Not at all. You are weasel-wording my comments in entirely the wrong way. I never mentioned altering YOUR laws, I simply pointed out how difficult things were made here in UK and the RoI.

If you want to rip the a$$ out of my comments, please go ahead and do it - you seem to have made a good start already for somebody who has just popped up out of the woodwork. I guess you've missed out reading my previous 8333 posts about freedom of choice for firearms ownership.

Come back when you've read them and we might talk some more, until then, you're right in my line of sight, 'pal'.

 

[Tilos]

Interesting. When I first started getting into guns in 2010 I was open to everything you use guns for. If a person were taking a self defense class I'd think the t-shirts would be THE way to do it.

I've carried a blade on my belt every day since shortly after I moved to Portland in 1983. (Only pulled it once when to drunk bothers, flipping me crap, followed me out of the bar late one night. My attitude musta' convinced them I'd use it) We moved into a less than great hood. Some one comes at me, or Wifey, intending to do harm, I'll have no qualms about opening them up. If I had a gun, same deal. Some how I figure that's the mindset you have to have from the start?

Yep
I am always scanning/assessing those around me and have ended up in some sketchy places when walking around in "resort" areas on vacation.
My flipper knife always finds its way into my hand (or my American Arms revolver where legal), ready for deployment when that happens, and my wife has learned to recognize what's going on.
I often split up with my wife (she knows this tactic too) to see which of us the DB follows.
They usually stop/look confused and turn around and retreat.
I have other tactics dependent on what other path they take.
jmo,

Edit: As far as targets go, I cut the flat 2 sides off of a paper grocery bag for target use.
They are the same size as a center mass target, without the head, and have never been considered as a "human target" that I know of.
The brown color is way better for a sight picture than black or bright white, and sticky dots can be added for precision shooting.
...and they are free
OP: sorry for the drift...

 

[tac]

Is this as a way of saying the UK and Republic of Ireland have turned gun ownership into a somewhat limited, elitist, 'fraternity' of sorts ?

For me (and no doubt millions of others in the US) gun owership has been hand in hand with our close relationship with the outdoors. A large percentage of us have grown up with the outdoors as being a way of life from the time we were born. Quite frankly I cannot even imagine what life would be like without the outdoors as being a primary source of recreation be it hunting, camping, hiking, fishing - or just simply woods walking with a gun in hand - and maybe not necessarily hunting but as a symbol of our freedoms.

Personally if I had to abide with the difficulties of the UK and Ireland with regard to gun ownership, and then be limited with my abilities to use them (such as at a range only) I probably wouldn't be a gun owner.

It would be like wanting to fish and having to do it in a concrete pond.

No, I'm not. The almost three million people here in UK who enjoy their shooting sports couldn't be less 'elitist' if they tried. If you had been at our guest day today you'd have a better grasp on just who DOES shoot over here. Ordinary people like me shoot for the fun and challenge it puts to us. On a range, on a hill, it doesn't matter.

Are you telling me that the USA does NOT have elitist shooters - people who happily spend tens of thousands of dollars on guns and equipment - often here in London at one or other of THE best gunmakers on earth?

C'mon, gimme a break.

Over here the British psyche does not comprehend what you term 'fraternity' - it is an alien notion that smacks of US high school and college. We don't even have such 'lettered' organisations in our many universities.

As for using your guns on a range only - then that is YOUR choice. Of course you can go deer hunting - stalking its called here - but not without authorisation and training. Because the island we live on is small by comparison with the gigantic open spaces in the USA, it is all controlled - you can't just stop off a highway, unlimber ol' Betsy, take a walk in the woods and shoot a deer if you feel like it. But then, you can't do that, legally, in the USA either, can you? You have seasons and game tags, right? You have game wardens making sure you stick to the rules, right? So how is that different to here?

Here in UK we have the British Deer Society. They are the authorising body who run courses of different levels, depending on your level of involvement in hunting. In order to qualify for authorisation to shoot deer, their courses are mandatory. However, I've yet to read anybody here on this forum bubbleguming about what the poor German hunter has to go through to get his or her Jagdschein. Their courses last a week, each, cost a small fortune and involve the use of rifle, shotgun and handgun ]for despatch], and passing EVERY part is also mandatory. They have THREE different kinds of waffenschein - gun permit - and are VERY strictly limited in what they can do and where they can do it - and that does NOT include permission to shoot on their own land - if they had any.

Sweden? That home of democracy and freedom of choice? Limited to six rifles.

Here in UK I can have as many as I want to have, provided that I can justify ownership - I currently own just twenty-two rifles, but I'm working on a couple more this coming year.

So please do some homework about what other countries do for legal gun ownership, and stop slagging off the UK and the people in it who choose to go shooting.

 

[RVTECH]

But then, you can't do that, legally, in the USA either, can you?

No we cannot, we have deer & other game seasons seasons as you do, however I CAN unlimber ol' Betsy, take a walk in the woods and shoot targets (or varmints) if I want - providing I am in a National/State Forest/private property and legally able to do so in the area and following basic gun safety.

However I was not talking about hunting - and perhaps you missed this part of my post - just simply woods walking with a gun in hand - and maybe not necessarily hunting but as a symbol of our freedoms.

I was simply trying to communicate a large part of gun ownership in the U.S. is based on the outdoors which has become an indelible part of our history since we first came ashore. Hunting is only one aspect of our outdoor traditions however gun ownership and shooting is a much greater part of it, and for the most part is a FREEDOM that is largely in part available to us all - regardless of how much one chooses to spend on his or her firearms - and for the most part without having to 'justify ownership' to anyone.

In short, having to 'justify' ownership negates any 'freedom' and makes gun ownership an 'organizational' 'fee based' undertaking.

If you read and are interested I highly recommend this book. It is a fantastic collection of historical writings, pictures, illustrations outlining 200 years of American Outdoor History.

 

[OldBroad44]

No if they changed their mind I would respect it. However I might still ask for a ride and that would be about it

Hello @Grilling425. Sounds like you need your friend to get rides to the range. And it sounds like he has some interest but maybe less than you. If you're worried about his reaction to human-like targets, just talk with him about it ahead of time. If its going to be a problem for him, you can choose courses that use other types of targets. Most general firearms courses probably don't use human-shape targets. Many self defense courses probably do use human-shape targets. I think if your friend would object to human-shape targets the rest of a self-defense course would probably be upsetting to him too, as it will include specific info about when and how to shoot people in self defense that is often lots more upsetting to those unfamiliar with self-defense gun use than the target shape. However, your friend might not be upset at either the target or self defense discussion. So just talk with him. If he's going to be upset at a self defense course, you can start with general courses. This may allow you to meet others you can get rides with for self defense courses.

Good to see you staying on the site and responding to participants when you start a thread. A suggestion: Its often difficult to understand which message you are responding to. If you use the reply button on the lower right corner of the message you are responding to, that message will be copied at the beginning of your response so everyone will know what you are answering.

Cheers,
Carol

 

[rabidmullet]

Not at all. You are weasel-wording my comments in entirely the wrong way. I never mentioned altering YOUR laws, I simply pointed out how difficult things were made here in UK and the RoI.

If you want to rip the a$$ out of my comments, please go ahead and do it - you seem to have made a good start already for somebody who has just popped up out of the woodwork. I guess you've missed out reading my previous 8333 posts about freedom of choice for firearms ownership.

Come back when you've read them and we might talk some more, until then, you're right in my line of sight, 'pal'.

I apologize if I misunderstood or upset you. In responses to somebody saying "Some people should not own guns" you replied that in UK and Republic of Ireland there are only serious gun owners because of the difficult process. In that context it sounded to me like you were advocating for making gun ownership more difficult. Based on some other posts I don't think I was the only person who read it that way either.

Regarding having just popped up out of the woodwork, I've been here since Sep 2020 and just renewed my support. I'm here here just about daily. I don't post very often and I only did because it really sounded to me like you were suggesting gun ownership should be made more difficult.

 

[Lazyfaire]

I think it's likely that targets may be human shaped, like this USPSA target. Furthermore, I think general self defense concepts are likely to come up, such as shooting for a Headshot or Center of Mass.

View attachment 1095613

@Grilling425 Starting out your goal is not to shoot the X ,your goal should be to shoot inside of the center box. Placement of shots should be paramount. It may be no comfort to you that when the police fire their weapons they only hit about 40+% of the time. Time and practice will make you a better shot, I'm still working at it!

 

[Member 52301]

Neither did I or I wouldn't have seen E1.

Can you tell us what E1 was about or briefly what happened in that new Paramount show?

I do not have paid packages for the boob tube or for the computer.

OTA - free reception only here as you may or may not remember.

I do watch some free movies, lectures, old debates, studies, news, etc. on YT and off of some other free websites like YT online.

Thank you.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

All I demand from my westerns is that they be entertaining. Otherwise, I try not to think about it too much.

1883 came with my Paramount+ package, unlike Yellowstone by Paramount Network and the same author. Surprised it is MTV studios, but that's two diff things. And it's dark/edgy... I like that. And it's not woke.... I really really really like that!!!

Okay, I just read this again so you will have to tell me what happened in E1 in this thread or in a private message if you have time.

We have not seen anything but a 'commercial' for this show on OTA - free tv and off of some news website online with an online AD.

Thanks.

Cate

 

[RVTECH]

Can you tell us what E1 was about or briefly what happened in that new Paramount show?

Basically it is a 'prequel' to the show 'Yellowstone' and highlights the adventures of the great grand parents of John Dutton. I originally started watching this show but not particularly liking Kevin Costner (or the show overall) I stopped.

I did not make the 'connection' initially but now I know what 1883 is about I may give E2/3 a look.

 

[po18guy]

I go to get some basic handgun class in a couple of weeks. The person I'm going with might have an issue with it, but not about learning handguns. If it was just me I would be ok with it. I want to do everything I can so he can have a good time. I think he kind of likes handgun but not his idea of a good time , but because I'm interested he will willing to join me. I want him to have a good time, and if I need to adjust what I do too. I think we can both have a good time and learn a lot.

Get a better friend. Choosing to own a weapon and be trained in the defense of innocent life is SRS business. Life or death. All training is designed to give you the skills necessary to save your life and his. You do not need the squeamish involved in this process.

p.s. You will never be attacked by a paper circle with numbers on it.

 

[Member 52301]

I will add this here and, again, I mean NO offense to any person here or what they believe and choose to own/shoot/carry a gun or NOT.

If a person decides and chooses to CARRY A GUN on their body (Concealed or Open Carry.) and they are making this SERIOUS DECISION for the purposes of Self Defense and not for just 'plinking at a range' - they better decide AHEAD of time what they can and can't do in a serious situation.

Mentally or physically or BOTH.

It is NOT something that should be taken lightly. Like, "Oh gee, I get to carry a gun today, bla and bla."

Crikey!

It is NOT something where some old, young or middle aged person gets his gun and may or may not take a class depending on the LAWS in his state, etc. and where that person NEVER THINKS about 'carrying' but he STILL carries yet he NEVER practices or rarely practices - keeps up his skills or even CLEANS the LINT or dust out of his CARRY GUN!

NO offense again.

Many times, in VERY SPECIFIC self defense situations, the situation ONLY requires a person showing or NOT even showing a gun to the bad guy/criminal because they are AWARE that you are armed or aware that YOU know what they are up to!

And they know that YOU even if your GUN (Handgun, rifle or shotgun.) is in your hand showing it - that you are ARMED.

Or if your hand is on your gun in a bathrobe pocket or jacket pocket or however your hand is on your GUN, knife or any other object - tool to be used for defending yourself and/or a loved one.

THIS CAN HAPPEN in your home, outside in the woods/wilderness, while traveling, in a crowd OR in a lonely area, VERY RURAL, remote - off the beaten path places, in small villages/towns, in small cities, in larger cities, in suburban areas, in GOOD/NICE areas where nothing bad ever happens (LOL) in a LOW CRIME AREA, in bad areas, in slums, in very wealthy areas, while on vacation, just going back and forth to work NO matter what schedule that you are on - day or night, if you are all ALONE, with your dog or not, with a spouse or a friend and even if you have children or other people in your home.

There are many examples of this - true stories from some of us all across the WWWeb and from other true stories in the news over the years.

There are many books written about this by famous authors - male and female too.

Female = Armed and Female is one of them and I believe that she wrote some follow up books too. Mas, Cooper, Keith, etc. are out there too.

If a person is going to CARRY A GUN on a regular basis or at very specific times of their life for ANY REASON - they should make a conscious decision AHEAD OF TIME on what their plan of action would be AND if they believe that they can't DEAL with 'self defense' tactics even if NOT ONE SHOT IS EVER FIRED... they should not be carrying a gun on their BODY.

Now, if they believe that a GUN (Knife, baseball bat, etc.) IN THEIR HOME or vehicle or on their body can SAVE THEIR LIFE and they KNOW what they will do in a specific ATTACK made by any criminal or a GANG of them to do them HARM - that is a good thing.

But if you have NOT made that decision AHEAD OF TIME or feel uncertain or wishy/washy about those matters - maybe you ought to come up with another self defense PLAN for yourself when out and about or INSIDE YOUR HOME or in your own yard when it comes to Criminals and even FERAL or so called DOMESTICATED VICIOUS - LOOSE DOGS (One lone dog or a PACK of them that attacked and killed a man on one Indian Reservation recently here in MT. TOO long to type out now.) or any other animal that tries to attack you.

I don't know about some of you HERE but I do know what I did and felt and what some of my other friends (OFFline and online.) did when confronted with some situations and, trust me, they were NOT only females alone or only with their female, very protective, German Shepherd dogs while their late husband was away.

A PAPER target IS a PAPER target and if a freaking PAPER target should BOTHER or upset someone taking a SELF DEFENSE CLASS seriously and not just LEARNING how to SHOOT SAFELY as a NEWBIE, etc. from the GITGO using a paper plate, a bullseye target, etc. - that should be your first clue about 'said person'.

If they can't HANDLE or DEAL WITH a type of PAPER target in a SELF DEFENSE CLASS... maybe they ought to THINK about carrying a GUN on their BODY and THINK about how they will defend themselves in their OWN HOME too.

Excuse my blunt talk but to me this is a SERIOUS DISCUSSION and a SERIOUS DECISION to make as a gun lady as it was even when I was a Newbie in the late 90's AND even long before that time frame when I used my late husband's 'house gun' as I called it for self defense - protection in my HOME back east when we built our house in his home state AFTER he got out of the USN - Nam and all around the world time.

Self defense is not something to be taken lightly or willy nilly even if NOT one shot is ever fired and you know all about the RULES that Cooper and other people teach you when it comes to basic firearm safety and advanced classes including self defense classes.

And IF you do NOT believe in the concept of self defense at all and choose NOT to do this and you ONLY choose to HUNT with your gun - you have hunter's safety classes and ALL kinds of RULES out there! (This was already mentioned here too.)

Those HUNTING rules are VERY SPECIFIC when it comes to hunting on YOUR OWN LAND, hunting on private land that some farmers/ranchers may allow you to do this as a TRUSTED friend, county land, state land, federal land, some Sportsmen's Clubs CLOSE DOWN their ranges and let you hunt (Lots of land!) and IT IS POSTED and strongly enforced - specific days/hours, and even some people go to some types of fancy/dancy hunting vacation places that you see out there. They are in this country and in other parts of the world.

Take care.

Old Lady Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Basically it is a 'prequel' to the show 'Yellowstone' and highlights the adventures of the great grand parents of John Dutton. I originally started watching this show but not particularly liking Kevin Costner (or the show overall) I stopped.

I did not make the 'connection' initially but now I know what 1883 is about I may give E2/3 a look.

Okay and thanks. I knew that it was a prequel to Yellowstone but I wondered what happened in E1 that the one man spoke about to you on this thread.

I did read a BIT about '1883' previously.

My husband and I saw one season (Video discs bought on sale and donated.) of Yellowstone and we were NOT impressed.

They got a whole BUNCH WRONG in Yellowstone about ranch life, water rights BIG time, and some other things that it just TICKED HIM off royally as a born and raised MT man - several generations plus his friends are homesteaders that go way back when. On top of that, a woman in that Yellowstone show, his daughter or some other female, was a real FEMALE DOG in her actions/talks. Sleaze ball and more. I know that it is only a BOOB TUBE show but it still bothered me plus with so many other things wrong that even ME who came here from another part of the country knew that some of the STUFF was wrong about MT laws and water rights.

I heard or read that Sam Elliot (?) is in '1883' and we really LIKE HIM as an actor!

Kevin Costner can be okay in some of his work and not in others. An old friend of mine back on the east coast (MD) looks EXACTLY like him so when I see KC - I think it is Michael. LOL

The 2 main singers who are the 2 main actors in '1883' - we are not really INTO them but maybe they can act. Beats me!

I just get so sick and tired of all of this WOKE crapola!

IT has ruined many shows and not just in the last several years even though the WOKE crapola is HUGE now.

(Side note: Heck, some man on the news gave his views as a CONSERVATIVE and as a Pastor and he has another job here in this area. But because he gave his PERSONAL views - the mass media is really going after HIM now. I have to read more about it IF the truth is OUT THERE (LOL) but they are going after his part time job - where he makes most of his money. Another piece of this WOKE CULTURE where some views are ALLOWED and other ones are NOT because they are conservative and worse off a believer! Sad! You and I have discussed this specific issue in the past a LONG TIME ago too.)

Thanks again.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Get a better friend. Choosing to own a weapon and be trained in the defense of innocent life is SRS business. Life or death. All training is designed to give you the skills necessary to save your life and his. You do not need the squeamish involved in this process.

p.s. You will never be attacked by a paper circle with numbers on it.

OMG!

I just read what you wrote and I was busy TYPING my long post out with my arthritic fingers!

Same wavelength!

Take care.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

Regarding the discussion that you guys wrote about old movies.

I love John Wayne movies! My husband has many of his movies here and he has NOT donated any of them.

Ooppsss! I take that back - he did donate some old JW b/w ones where he could not hear or understand some of the really OLD, old JW films. So those 'sets' did get donated. The JW set of those old movies did not have CC words and the film was scratchy and not clear to see so we figured that someone else might enjoy them compared to our old eyes and hearing!

I adore CLINT EASTWOOD films as most of you know and have had a crush on him since I was a KID and he was in Rawhide! I liked his BOSS too. LOL

I prefer the original version of TRUE GRIT with JW.

I have seen both of them and we kept the original one and donated the other one.

I enjoyed both of them.

Now with that said... grin.

Lo and behold, my husband who has some hearing issues saw a 2 pack version of TRUE GRIT with the subtitles on them - old and new movies. He bought that SET for less than $5.00 not too long ago.

So now, he has one OLD copy of the original one and the newer improved True Grit SET - old and new versions.

I LOVE Lonesome Dove! All of it! I cried when some scenes were played too.

I liked WILL PENNY and SHANE since it was mentioned here too.

Old Lady Cate