National Do any of the NFA/GCA rules apply to muzzleloading firearms?

[arakboss]

Is it A-OK to convert a muzzleloading rifle to a muzzleloading pistol or make an SBR muzzleloader?. I was under the assumption that NFA/GCA rules didn't apply to front stuffers?

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[Bender]

Is it A-OK to convert a muzzleloading rifle to a muzzleloading pistol or make an SBR muzzleloader?. I was under the assumption that NFA/GCA rules didn't apply to front stuffers?

Check in the state you reside. In MOST states, a muzzle loader is NOT considered a firearm.

With that being said, I do believe Oregon is one of the states that DOES consider a muzzle loader to be a firearm. So in your state, yes, I believe it would fall under NFA guidelines as well.

Another Oregon topic to address is serialization. If you muzzle loader does not have a serial number, that is a new requirement. Many of the older muzzle loaders do not have a SN

 

[Andy54Hawken]

As a general rule.....
Muzzle loaders are exempt for the NFA and GCA of '68.

However...as pointed out above , what a state says is a firearm may be different.
So check your state laws as well.
Andy

 

[Stomper]

As a general rule.....
Muzzle loaders are exempt for the NFA and GCA of '68.

However...as pointed out above , what a state says is a firearm may be different.
So check your state laws as well.
Andy

How about a blunderbuss…. basically a front stuffer SBS?

If I were to obtain or make one of those, I would only have one that I could stuff full soup cans down the front of and launch them

 

[vanlab]

Hmmm, suppressor on a muzzle loader

 

[Bender]

Hmmm, suppressor on a muzzle loader

Wouldn't the can its self fall under NFA……doesn't matter what it's installed on

 

[Camelfilter]

Wouldn't the can its self fall under NFA……doesn't matter what it's installed on

Perhaps some non-removeable type?

Maybe threaded end cap to remove baffels & clean, but the suppressor itself being integral to the barrel?

Like air gun suppressor are integral.

 

[Bender]

Perhaps some non-removeable type?

Maybe threaded end cap to remove baffels & clean, but the suppressor itself being integral to the barrel?

Like air gun suppressor are integral.

Now that's an idea……..ingenious

 

[Nosferatu]

Wouldn't the can its self fall under NFA……doesn't matter what it's installed on

Perhaps some non-removeable type?

Maybe threaded end cap to remove baffels & clean, but the suppressor itself being integral to the barrel?

Like air gun suppressor are integral.

It's been done before; The Silencerco Maxim 50. The suppressor was permanently attached, so it didn't fall under NFA.

 

[Val1884]

Hmmm, suppressor on a muzzle loader

That was ok'd by ATF. It was my idea an I had the approval letter. Made the mistake of talking to a buddy an poof 8 months later silencerco has suppressed non nfa muzzleloaders. Doubt they had the same idea in the same timeframe. Mine cammed off to the side on a riveted hing tho so you could load without pouring powder thru baffles.

 

[vanlab]

That was ok'd by ATF. It was my idea an I had the approval letter. Made the mistake of talking to a buddy an poof 8 months later silencerco has suppressed non nfa muzzleloaders. Doubt they had the same idea in the same timeframe. Mine cammed off to the side on a riveted hing tho so you could load without pouring powder thru baffles.

I think they discontinued that one, I was thinking about getting one..

 

[Andy54Hawken]

How about a blunderbuss…. basically a front stuffer SBS?

If I were to obtain or make one of those, I would only have one that I could stuff full soup cans down the front of and launch them

Yep many blunderbuss have short as in 20 inches or less barrels.
And if they are muzzle loaders ...they are not subject to SBS rules.

As far as soup can launching ....doubtful...most are 20 to 10 gauge ...so it would have be a skinny soup can....
Andy

 

[Stomper]

Yep many blunderbuss have short as in 20 inches or less barrels.
And if they are muzzle loaders ...they are not subject to SBS rules.

As far as soup can launching ....doubtful...most are 20 to 10 gauge ...so it would have be a skinny soup can....
Andy

Just heat that sucker up and roll it back and forth on the counter!

 

[red442joe]

Wouldn't it depend on whether the m/l is a "firearm", as suppressors lessen the sound of a "firearm".
If the m/l is not a firearm, how are you reducing the sound of a firearm.

Joe

 

[lucusloc]

Wouldn't it depend on whether the m/l is a "firearm", as suppressors lessen the sound of a "firearm".
If the m/l is not a firearm, how are you reducing the sound of a firearm.

Joe

The question is if you can remove it and affix it to a firearm. This is why all airgun suppressor are integral; if you cannot remove it there is no question on if you can attach it to a firearm.

This is true of all suppressors, not just ones that fit to gun-like not-guns. There is an old joke; "I don't know a guy who accidental made a lawnmower muffler that fit the bayonet lug on hims Mosin Nagant." it seems like a clever/funny idea to skirt the law (or at least have plausible deniability about violating the law), but with the whole concept of "constructive intent" just the fact that your lawnmower muffler can fit a firearm is enough to be a violation regardless of if intent to do so is established. If the suppressor can fit a real firearm then it is a real firearm under the NFA and your intent has no relevance to the situation.

The riveted hinge idea on a muzzle loader is a neat idea, but it seem like it does add annoyance to the loading process, and I cannot imagine the hinge part can effect a good seal. Some kind of screw lock would be better, but now you need a way to make it so it cannot be removed from the not-gun when it is unscrewed, and I doubt very much the ATF would count a length of chain as "permanently attached."

In the end this is just another way that bureaucracy stifles innovation, even in places that are not even technically covered by those laws.

 

[GrayGoose]

Why on Earth would anyone even think about putting a suppressor on a black powder muzzleloader? The distinct sound of the muzzle blast is half of the enjoyment of shooting one. If anything I'd put a loudencer on mine, like a Blunderbuss.

(no this isn't mine but I wish I had this)

 

[Alexx1401]

The question is if you can remove it and affix it to a firearm. This is why all airgun suppressor are integral; if you cannot remove it there is no question on if you can attach it to a firearm.

This is true of all suppressors, not just ones that fit to gun-like not-guns. There is an old joke; "I don't know a guy who accidental made a lawnmower muffler that fit the bayonet lug on hims Mosin Nagant." it seems like a clever/funny idea to skirt the law (or at least have plausible deniability about violating the law), but with the whole concept of "constructive intent" just the fact that your lawnmower muffler can fit a firearm is enough to be a violation regardless of if intent to do so is established. If the suppressor can fit a real firearm then it is a real firearm under the NFA and your intent has no relevance to the situation.

The riveted hinge idea on a muzzle loader is a neat idea, but it seem like it does add annoyance to the loading process, and I cannot imagine the hinge part can effect a good seal. Some kind of screw lock would be better, but now you need a way to make it so it cannot be removed from the not-gun when it is unscrewed, and I doubt very much the ATF would count a length of chain as "permanently attached."

In the end this is just another way that bureaucracy stifles innovation, even in places that are not even technically covered by those laws.

Someone while back was making a front stuffer with a built in can. It came with a long funnel you put into the can so the powder was poured past the baffles. I have thought about getting a can for my PCP but had wondered about that. Chances are slim the fed boys would care but since they can be threaded on and off? Guess maybe as long as they did not fit the threads of any firearm I owned. Would really have to be doing something to get their attention for them to push this anyway.

 

[lucusloc]

If it detaches, had a straight through hole, and is of an appropriate size I bet they would care. You would have to make sure it really could not readily attach to anything, and you might even need a letter from them attesting to as much. I am pretty sure that the main principle behind a black powder suppressor and a regular firearm suppressor is close enough that the feds will consider them the same thing if they are detached from the host arm. I know that is how they consider airgun suppressors, which is why (again) all such suppressors are permanently attached and you never see detachable ones even with proprietary attachment mechanisms.

But yeah, the "if you never tell anyone who will know" is pretty accurate. I mean you can make them with a large soda bottle, some durable stuffing and some tape. The fact that they are a super regulated device is just pure wishful thinking from our legislative betters.