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Concealed carry, are you ready?

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by Snowy Rivers, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    As some of you know, I have been in teaching CCW for a loooooong time
    Pat and I got our carry permits in 1989 IIRC. This was just after the law went into effect.
    Shortly thereafter we went through range officer training, then NRA instructor certification.

    This left us wanting more.
    We enrolled in LFI 1 and then on to LFI 2
    From here we bounced around and got involved in several classes on weapons retention and disarm techniques.

    Gawd, where do you stop, ahhhh NEVER

    We were urged to start teaching and decided to get into the CCW end of things.

    Our thrust has always been to try and give folks enough info to allow them to make a conscious choice about what they are about to do "Carry a gun"

    And most of all to do it safely and STAY OUT OF TROUBLE IF POSSIBLE.

    The past few years have not been kind to me, and I am not going to get into a physical scrap with some puke, not even.

    In the many years of carrying a gun I have had 4 instances where I have had someone on the business end of my piece and twice had all the slack taken up in the trigger.

    This is not a pleasant place to be, BELIEVE ME.

    What follows can be a lifetime long case of misery, albeit staying alive.

    I have conducted class with folks from all walks of life, from burly iron workers to petite little office girls. From the district attorney of PDX staff members to martial arts trainers and to retirees of many many professions.

    The one thing that always haunts me is "Are we giving them the tools they need to survive" ??????

    In the face of mortal danger, will they be able to respond appropriately ???


    For those of you who work LE and see the "finest" that scum has to offer :rolleyes: you no doubt have been there done that.

    Joe/Jane average does not see this side of "paradise" and hopefully will not need to.

    The rub comes when these two segments of society clash.

    Ask yourself this question "Am I prepared mentally to end a life"

    Sadly this is the seriousness of the reason we carry a gun.

    The gun fight lasts a few seconds, but the haunting memory of that split second that you ended a life goes on forever.

    Yeah yeah yeah, all the Bad A$$'s sit around the campfire telling of their exploits while carrying their favorite blaster.
    I am not impressed with having to carry a piece, let alone using it.

    Will I continue to carry, damned straight I will. Will I use it, if need be Yes

    Stop and think about it, real hard, CAN I GITTERDONE ????

    Concealed carry is easy, real easy.
    A few hundred bucks worth of gear, a permit and your off to the races.

    Hows your mental gear doing ??? Up to the task of the AFTERMATH ????

    It's a huge subject with many answers.

    The decision is one that can't be arrived at in 15 minutes.

    The mind set must be right.

    "I WILL NOT BE A VICTIM" must be the bottom line.

    I am a 63 yo gal that's seen waaaaaay to damned many miles at the helm of a big rig (couple million) and far too many people that had no class, 4 of which ended up on the business end of my iron.

    Fortunately they all decided to go away without pushing the envelope farther.

    You may not be so lucky, the puke you end up facing down may decide to test your mettle.

    Are you capable of entering into the Final Count Down??????

    How tough you are shows after the bad guy is laying at your feet.
    All the worst nightmares come into play after the gun fight, NOT sitting around chatting about how bad your 1911 carry piece is.

    Some things just take the wisdom of age/time to gel.

    Just some thoughts from Missy Snowy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2015
  2. SHPD_Retired

    SHPD_Retired Saint Helens Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post. I recently had a young man tell me he wanted to go into Law Enforcement. The first thing I asked him is if he could kill somebody, not that I want him to ever have to but he needed to be told that it is a thing you really need to think about. Luckily for me I had 21 years of service before I had to find out if the answer I had made many years ago was correct. Many people think about it occasionally but never really answer the question to themselves. I hope as you have stated that they do. If you are not ready to take another life then do not carry that gun. It does have serious consequences mentally even if you are prepared.
     
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  3. Hayshaker

    Hayshaker Irrigon Active Member

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    I totally agree. Big responsibility ~ and it will always stay with you.
    look at our veterans ~ killing always is with in your memory and can have drastic lifetime consequences.
     
  4. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Snowy, thanks for your thoughts
    Some will, some won't.
    Practice, muscle memory, my body is familiar.
    Modified my clothing style to accommodate IWB concealment
    Deception, distraction, deterrence. There are many ways to skin a cat or a perp.
    Practice situational awareness while in public. If I sense them first, I can get inside their OODA.
    A plan to retreat.
    Make another plan for when SHTF. Do it enough, it becomes habit.

    Snowy, thanks to you and all the instructors out there!
    There are more stealthy CC citizens than there used to be.
    When SHTF, maybe the S won't be so bad, last so long.
    If I taught, I would start, end, and in-between with the law's reasons to fire.
    Short and simple, to ingrain it in everyone's head.

    "Are you ready to kill?!" is counterproductive.
    Rather ask "will you follow the law?" Then summarize the law.

    Happy Independence day :)
     
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  5. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    A huge responsibility! I never holster my pistol in the AM without a pause to remember that this is a projectile throwing machine and it is all on me.
     
  6. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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  7. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    Thanks troops.

    One very important element, and we make it known to students that the most important thing before the gun goes bang is.

    "When innocent life is in immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm"

    Then and only then is the use of deadly force reasonable.

    NO WARNING SHOTS ARE EVER PERMISSIBLE

    It wastes ammo, and if you don't need to fire a shot to defend innocent life you don't need to fire at all.
     
  8. whiskeybill

    whiskeybill Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

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    I was Air Force police many years ago when I thought I would have a lifelong career in LE, but life comes at you and that was not to be. I do recall the training we received and as far as deadly force goes, the decision was not so much that you would take a life, but save a life (either your own or that of another). I have carried off and on for many years, and these days more often than not as society becomes more uncivil. If the day comes that I do have to use deadly force, and the outcome is tragic for some bad person, I have no idea how I will end up dealing with it, but I do know I won't dwell on it. It will be a matter of keeping it in perspective that it was either them or me, them or a loved one. Period. Keep in mind that there are "Degrees of force", and the mere presence of the firearm can turn the situation. That has worked for me on one occasion, the only time so far that I thought I would actually have to use the pistol to defend myself.

    As someone who carries concealed, that is MY choice to defend myself. The bad guys make choices as well. If one is shot and killed (or merely wounded) during the commission of a felony, either by an armed citizen or a police officer, that is HIS choice that brought him to that unfortunate circumstance.
     
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  9. whiskeybill

    whiskeybill Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

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    Warning shots are never permissible because you have no idea where they are going. Bullets fired into the air must come down. Bullets fired into the ground can ricochet. Either way, you may do unintended harm to some innocent bystander.
     
    Ed Guinn likes this.
  10. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    NO WARNING SHOTS ARE EVER PERMISSIBLE
    But I do get a mulligan right?
     
  11. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    Amen on that Bill

    The sad part is that even if you save your life or the life of another innocent, the screwy society is chocked full of stupid prosecutors that can't wait to vilify you for stopping a felon.

    Mind set is the key here.

    Once you have the "I will survive mind set" it becomes far easier to get hold of the reality of tripping the hammer on some puke, and not looking back.

    I was indoctrinated at an early age.
    I was about 19 and working the night shift 11-7 at a gas station and some punk tried to rob the place.

    He drew a gun on me and demanded $$$$$
    He did not see the local cop car parked in the service bay (shop lights off) just killing time.

    The cop walked into the show room just as the kid yanked his stub nose 38.

    Kid pointed the gun at the cop when he saw him and the cop tossed a couple 357 mags into the kids guts.

    Kid died there on the floor crying for his mommy.

    This scene still haunts me after 40 plus years.

    A 357 mag messes things up real bad.

    I had grown up with guns and this episode did not change my view of guns one bit.

    Watching a teenager flush his life down the toilet in a few seconds just left a hollow spot in my soul.

    Sadly the world is full of these dumb fools that will pull some stunt and end their life.

    We bought a lovely Colt Python from an ex state trooper. He had used it twice in the line of duty to take down some idiot that tried to kill him.

    He finally quit the force due to PTSD issues and then decided to sell his piece.

    The act of defense is not even a pleasant one many times, but beats the alternative.

    Then again, many times the survivor winds up dead inside trying to deal with the fact that they took a life.

    I view it as ridding the world of a rabid dog, as you can't have that sort of thing around.

    Tough subject.

    Snowy
     
  12. lowly monk

    lowly monk Beaverton, Oregon. Just a guy. Bronze Supporter

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  13. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    When you're carrying your 5 shot snubby, a warning shot is 20% of your capacity WASTED

    Not to mention the fact, that if the brooo ha ha is only an effing drunk, you have discharged a firearm without justification.

    No warning shots.

    Gotta remember, if you end up with some animal that's not afraid of you or you're gun, then every round may be needed.

    Carry a backup gun :)
     
  14. whiskeybill

    whiskeybill Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

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    Remember Star Trek and the infamous "Kobayashi Maru" exercise? This discussion sounds like a "lose-lose" scenario. Let's say you're at the beach. Two people are in the water, in obvious distress. You are a fairly strong swimmer, and must first decide if you are going to attempt a rescue. Decision, attempt a rescue. Which person do you rescue first? You know that regardless of which one you rescue, the other will likely drown before you can get them ashore. How do you live with the decision? Those decisions are never easy, but they are often simple. You saved one life, and did the best you could do given the circumstances. The situation was thrust upon you, you did not put yourself in the situation.

    As for scum-bag attorneys, s*%#w them. I would rather be alive and testifying in court as to why the bad guy is curtailed, than to have the bad guy testifying in court as to why I'm the one in the cold hard ground.
     
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  15. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    Kobayashi Maru is a scenario we may all face.

    All prejudice aside, when it comes to a "Social engagement" we do not want to give the other side anything more than we need to.

    These people are yellow to the core, and would let the scum rape and kill their children, then cry for laws to prevent it.

    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat, we already have laws.
    You and I know and understand that some ink on a page in a dusty drawer does nothing to prevent crime.

    Sadly for those of us who will lay our life on the line to save their bacon, these same ungrateful dirt bags would sue us for trying, or prosecute, whichever.

    It's a tough call, but we can gitterdone :)
     
  16. whiskeybill

    whiskeybill Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you ever notice that when some terrorist sets off a bomb somewhere, it's always about the terrorist, and never the bomb? Someone injures or murders someone with a firearm, good grief, it CAN'T be about the SHOOTER, it's the GUN. Maybe if they made the terrorists register all their bomb making stuff the world would be a safer place! Perhaps some safety classes in bomb making would do the trick. I'll run that by my Democrat law makers and see what they can do with it!o_O

    As for me, it's "Hold center & squeeze".
     
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  17. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    I'm in :)

    Double tap'em in the A ZONE
     
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  18. whiskeybill

    whiskeybill Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

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    If this game were easy, we'd call it golf!
     
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  19. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    I've always heard that the more one is trained/has trained (weaponless defense and fielding/deploying an arn), the less likelihood they are to shoot at all.
    That's code for master your weapon and at least be respectable with your hands/body.
     
  20. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    AMEN
     
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