Concealed carry, are you ready?

[IronMonster]

I read recently (in Concealed Carry by Massad Ayoob). That between state and federal there are over 20,000 gun laws on the books already. Somehow the liberal law maker thinks "just one more" will fix everything

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Yup, sad eh, that these idiots can't grasp the concept that laws don't stop crime.

We spent quite a bit of time with Ayoob during our training.

LFI was a real worthwhile undertaking.

We also brought MAS to Oregon in 1992 and co taught an LFI 1 class with him at Tri County gun club.

LFI 2 is far more in depth and tougher on students.

Weapons retention and disarm techniques is always good for 5 tubes of Ben Gay and bunches of Bandaids before it's over.

Tactical shotgun is another brutal session.
Ours was in the mud with snow coming down (March in Idaho)

Night shooting is a real eye opener.

We did not do LFI 3 as it required (at that time) travel to New Hampshire, and work got in the way.

Great stuff, just a good start I might add.

I always wanted to go to a class taught by Col Cooper, but it was never feasible with my schedule.

 

[edison bulb]

In the many years of carrying a gun I have had 4 instances where I have had someone on the business end of my piece and twice had all the slack taken up in the trigger.

25 sentences later you write:

I am a 63 yo gal that's seen waaaaaay to damned many miles at the helm of a big rig (couple million) and far too many people that had no class, 4 of which ended up on the business end of my iron. Fortunately they all decided to go away without pushing the envelope farther.

So which one is the truth, Snowy Rivers?

 

[Snowy Rivers]

All the above

 

[blackadder]

25 sentences later you write:



So which one is the truth, Snowy Rivers?

I'm not seeing the rub. How can both statements not be true. Both times it was 4ppl and both times everyone walked away without getting shot. In the first statement she uses a detail (in two instances the slack in her trigger was taken up) that is not mentioned in second statement. Just because she doesn't include that detail in the second telling doesn't negate the veracity of her claim.

 

[edison bulb]

I'm not seeing the rub. How can both statements not be true. Both times it was 4ppl and both times everyone walked away without getting shot. In the first statement she uses a detail (in two instances the slack in her trigger was taken up) that is not mentioned in second statement. Just because she doesn't include that detail in the second telling doesn't negate the veracity of her claim.

The problem is that the second statement contradicts the first. The first statement doesn't specify whether any bullets successfully hit a target -- and that really isn't the point.

The first statement says: "twice had all the slack taken up in the trigger" which implies the gun was fired in two of four encounters.

The second statement suggests that of the four encounters, no bullets were fired. Wouldn't four people who walked away without pushing the envelope imply the trigger was *not* depressed?

So we can interpret this in a couple of ways:

1) Snowy White really had 6 encounters but forgot to talk about the two of them
2) Snowy White is pulling the wool over her own eyes in how she performed in a real or imagined encounter with these four, possibly more, individuals at the business end of her piece

 

[Deebow]

There are many people that even though they go to the classes and work hard, they don't have the mindset to do what needs doing at the moment of truth. They worry about things that they shouldn't (their income, home, livelihood) and they hesitate out of fear of loss from what may come after pushing the bang switch.

I would give up all of those things in a minute so that my family could remain safe. The bad guy will be dead and I will be alive, and so will my family. I will fix the rest later on.

So shoot the D'bag in the face. 5 times at least.

Fit people are hard to kill. There are no excuses. Work on it. You are no good to your family if you defeat the BG in battle only to succumb to a heart attack afterward.

Carry everywhere. So there is a sign? Who cares. That sign isn't going to protect your family. Concealed means concealed.

Carry the best gun you can afford to buy and shoot well. If that is a .22 or a .50 AE, then so be it.

 

[edison bulb]

I think getting some kind of concealed carry insurance is a good idea. Read the very fine print of the policy. Highlight any part you don't understand and ask the insurance company for an explanation. Do your research on the policy.

 

[etrain16]

The first statement says: "twice had all the slack taken up in the trigger" which implies the gun was fired in two of four encounters.

I think you're assuming she fired, but that's not what she said. She said the slack was taken up - I read that to mean that she had her finger on the trigger, taking up the slack just to the point where the trigger was about to break, and that was it. No shots fired, and no apparent conflict with her other statement.

 

[edison bulb]

Then the word "some" of the slack should have been used. "All" means the trigger was fully depressed, no where else to go except for a trigger reset, and that the gun was fired.

 

[etrain16]

Then the word "some" of the slack should have been used. "All" means the trigger was fully depressed, no where else to go except for a trigger reset, and that the gun was fired.

In the various classes I've taken, "taking up the slack" on the trigger has always meant to pull it back just to the point of the break, not to depress it to the point of firing. As part of trigger control practice, we would be told to pull the trigger just to the point where it was about to break - and they would use the words 'take up the slack' only to this point - after that, it was the break to fire the gun.

The 'slack' in a trigger is really nothing more than the part of the trigger travel that doesn't actually activate the fire the gun. Maybe someone else can give an educated refutation of that,
but I still don't see any issue with what she said. And as an instructor, I think she probably knows what she meant as well.

 

[IronMonster]

I agree, Taking up the slack is not sending a bullet down range.

I can sit here and show you what it looks like to take up all the slack, the slack does not fire the weapon its after the slack has been taken up that the trigger breaks.

 

[blackadder]

Then the word "some" of the slack should have been used. "All" means the trigger was fully depressed, no where else to go except for a trigger reset, and that the gun was fired.

"All" of the slack means up to the trigger break but not past it as etrain said. People in the shooting community use that phrase in that manner "all" the time.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

OK FELLAS

I will clarify, as it seems some need to read more into this than is there.

I drove class 8 heavy haulers for over 20 yrs (8 axle transfer type dump truck/trailer systems)

In my time as "captain" of the "ship" (And owner) I had four times that I drew down on some dirt bag.

Of these 4 times TWO were to the point that I had all the slack out and things were at the point that the next step was BANG.

Happily, no shots were fired, not because I was worried about the aftermath, but because the puke stood down and went away.

Yes, I called 911 and reported the incident to the local LEO.

Hope this clears up all the wild speculation and extrapolation.

Snowy not so white, maybe slightly soiled at my age.

Keep you're powder dry

 

[Raidingtime]

In the various classes I've taken, "taking up the slack" on the trigger has always meant to pull it back just to the point of the break, not to depress it to the point of firing. As part of trigger control practice, we would be told to pull the trigger just to the point where it was about to break - and they would use the words 'take up the slack' only to this point - after that, it was the break to fire the gun.

The 'slack' in a trigger is really nothing more than the part of the trigger travel that doesn't actually activate the fire the gun. Maybe someone else can give an educated refutation of that,
but I still don't see any issue with what she said. And as an instructor, I think she probably knows what she meant as well.

+1- taking up slack does not mean firing a round. Yes confusing gun lingo however taking up slack on a trigger simply means depressing the trigger slightly but not enough to release the firing pin onto the primer or on the rim of the casing.

Snowy Rivers discussion should be taken seriously as she has put forth a very serious topic that many CCers may not think about. However, I feel like she maybe preaching to the choir as many frequent NWFA members probably have accustomed themselves to this line of thought. It's the dude or gal that purchases a shiny 1911 FORTAH FIVE CALIBUH or any other pistol really to CC for no other reason than to either have one of these following mind:

"Look buddies at what I picked up"
"I'm safe now that I have this even though I've only shot a firearm a couple of times in my life"
"I can't wait for someone to push me the wrong way"
"My ding dong is looking a little whimpy but this piece carried in the appendix makes me feel better about myself"

These people are who ought to take some time to think about if they're comfortable and ready to defend a life(s) by taking another life.

Thanks Snowy for the thoughts and stories

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Damned straight talk

The ding dong that goes out possibly looking for a fight is the type that scare me.

My blood pressure does not need any help to get up into the ozones.

 

[Raidingtime]

Damned straight talk

The ding dong that goes out possibly looking for a fight is the type that scare me.

My blood pressure does not need any help to get up into the ozones.

They scare me because I know their actions will reflect upon the rest of the firearm community.

Thankfully most firearm owners represent the community well because they're aware of the weight and responsibility that goes along with it. Judt ask a Muslim or a police officer how the actions of just a few reflect upon the whole.

We all should keep our blood pressure and blood sugar levels ordinary so we don't get got from another kind of threat

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Yes indeed
One bad apple spoils the barrel

 

[Just Jim]

Pulling the trigger is done useing the brass system

Breath
Relax
Aim
"Slack"
Squeeze

Going to "slack" in a confrontation is about 3 pounds from ending it.

 

[U201491]

I agree, Taking up the slack is not sending a bullet down range.

I can sit here and show you what it looks like to take up all the slack, the slack does not fire the weapon its after the slack has been taken up that the trigger breaks.

Correct answer.