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Conceal Carry at Work?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by STUBSZERO, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. STUBSZERO

    STUBSZERO Albany Oregon Member

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    I work for a community college. Weapons are banned, except for students that have a Conceal Carry permit. (Thanks in part to my buddy Jeff, who was the WOU student in the papers a few years ago).

    Oregon Firearms Federation
    two separate articles
    Oregon Firearms Federation

    However, in talking to co-workers and reading articles regarding the subject, all state, that employees do not have the same rights. Employees are not allowed to conceal carry, even with their permit. I have asked campus security, as well as read the employee handbook and neither has a definite response. I was wondering if anyone else that works at a state funded college knows a definitive answer to this question.(Or anyone in general) Thanks for your time! These forums are great!
     
  2. John Gault

    John Gault clackamas county Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Just graduated a two year program at local Community College. Carried every day including graduation. Guaranteed that I would have been dropped from the closed program if I was discovered but Concealed is Concealed. You have to make your own decision and take what risks you are willing to take. Lose a job, lose a life. Good Luck.
     
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  3. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    .... or hope someone like me who regularly carries on PCC campuses will possibly save your butt. ;)
     
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  4. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    When I went to PCC, many years ago I carried, just never told anyone. But this was over 20 years ago too.
     
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  5. 2506

    2506 Seattle Well-Known Member

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    If you do it right, nobody knows you're carrying.
     
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  6. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    I own my own business however I work an early AM job to make extra money to help me out during the winter and to help with my gun fund :)

    Anyhow, Long story short they have an anti firearm policy for ALL employees.. now.. they "say" don't ask dont tell.. however if something were to happen, lets say before my shift (Again in the early AM) and I had no other choice but to defend myself.. I'd then be fired. Even though I was well within State Law.

    Also, and this is something I've wanted to bring up.. lets say I ride my bike to work in the early AM.. (I open carry on a bike only) but even if I didn't I could not stoe it in my vehicle during work hours, I'd HAVE to bring it in. I've ridden past 3 gangs in the times I've rode my bike to work so not carrying is no longer an option, and yes I've been assualted however once I got off the bike and they saw I'm 6'6 and 250 they didn't really continue with bothering me and I'll be bubblegummed if I'm going to just lay down and just let 6 little thugs try and jump me.

    I also assume they were ready for beddy bed time. Its hard these days for young gangbangers.. staying up late.. living off the system oo their parents, jumping one guy with 6 of their skinny little friends to look tough and lets not forget harassing young women. You may ask, well don't ride your bike then.. well.. I work two jobs, I work 7 days a week and have little time to work out, biking to my first job and then home before my second is really my best form of getting a little exercise every couple of days if that.

    I digress.
    My first job has a serious flaw in the "Hand Book" stating I cannot carry to work. I'm a hard working, 2 job-tax paying, law abiding citizen and yet becuase they assume banning ALL guns will stop crime, I could lose my job for just wanting to protect myself and possibly my coworkers.

    I want them to sign over to me in writing that they will provide for me and my family and will also supplement any income lost to my business if I am assaulted and unable to work because I was denied my 2A rights.

    I will do this in the following month. I doubt anything will change and they will give me a bunch of legal quotes stating its just policy and they have to do it..

    I don't know.. anyone actually taken on the company they work for here on NWFA with their 2A rights?
     
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  7. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I have had a concealed pistol with me everyday for the last three years where I'm employed. I've never been given an employee handbook, I've never asked for an employee handbook, and I've never asked for their permission, plus I have never seen or heard of an anti-gun policy although I could safely assume they would say, "no". I just let sleeping dogs lay where they are, besides with the amount of people they go through and let go, it may save them if disgruntled employee decides to visit for "payback".
     
  8. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Someone once asked the previous administrator about carrying on the job (security). His answer was "You have a permit right? Just don't do anything stupid" He's since died and a new person is in his place. I haven't bothered to ask him his position on carrying, and I don't intend to. Been carrying every day and only one person has ever noticed (took my vest off and my shirt had gotten hooked on the grip). Luckily she's a vet so it was no big thing.
     
  9. sadiesassy

    sadiesassy Prescott Active Member

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    I think the OP was talking about someone working at a state run college that may have experience.
    I believe all state property does not allow guns on site by employees????

    As far as private companies go - it is a liabiliy issues . Based on legal opinions - Most have restrictions against weapons on the property ( anywhere) .
    They have full legal rights to set the policy. They are not denying your 2A rights - you have them off their property.
    It is your responsibility to understand and comply with company policy.
    Law says you may not take a gun on propoerty posting no weapons.
    Please note it says anywhere on the property. So storing n the car on company property is not allowed. You could take th option to park off the company property.
    Have a bike and want to carry - sell the bike and buy a car.

    They have full right to terminate your employment immediately if you violate company policy. Lots of court cases.

    It is not their responsibility to protect you outside of work. That is your responsibility

    If you do not like the policy - leave.
    I would not want to be terminated for bringing a firearm to work against rules and then attempt to get work afterwards.

    You could always rent some storage place - but even they have restrictions against firearms
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
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  10. STUBSZERO

    STUBSZERO Albany Oregon Member

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    Oregon University System will not appeal court decision allowing guns on campus | OregonLive.com

    Here is a Website I found talking about it, however it is from 2011. It says that state funded colleges are public and so is their property, so they can't go above the state law and dictate who is able and not able to carry on campus? I think I read it correctly. Yes, Sadiesassy, that is exactly what I am asking, I want to know if there are any state funded college workers that know for sure the laws and/or rules on the subject, since the people I work with can't give me a yes or no answer. On the upshot, it's nice to hear people's perspectives on how they conceal carry. Keep up the good posts. :)
     
  11. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I also worked for the WA DOT, I carried full time when working there too, never had any problem since there was no posted nor written policy against it at the time. I retired from there in 1998 at 51. They may have a no weapons policy now though.
     
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  12. Karvin

    Karvin Douglas County, Oregon Member

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    My boss actually encourages it. Lucky Me.
     
  13. SteelyDan

    SteelyDan Junction City Active Member

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    Maybe it's time to walk into the administrator/dean/boss and thank them profusely for the fire extinguishers they have thoughtfully placed to save you from fire. Thank them also for safety glass windows, the non-skid on the steps and the hand rails on the stairs.

    Then ask them why they think you should die during a work place assault? I bet same company would expect you to pick up an extinguisher and put out a burning trash can? They would certainly expect you to mop up a spill. Why then, are you expected to become a victim in the face of a madman intent on harming you?
     
  14. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    I've never asked for one either, however when hired 5 years ago we are given one. And since company policy has rule of law when a company posts an anti firearm policy. What I'm getting at is that they need to look and and consider that every case is different. And if we just keep walking around the issue and not addressing it nothing will change. I personally would like to be part of some movement in the company I work for. My business is very pro carry. (Heck, its my business) and any employee that comes in will have every right to carry if they so choose. Either in their truck, on their person or at our office. Also, I'm looking to leave here in about 6 months to a year (My business is getting too busy to carry on with both jobs).. if I so choose to kick that hornets nest then at least I can walk away. I looking to see if anyone here has taken up the carry issue with their job.
    (Hijacked the thread a bit in hind sight.. I thought it applied though)
     
  15. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Oh I know full well I could walk away.. however I'd rather fight for a change in policy or at least have them take a second look at what may come in the future. If it isn't me, someone else will bring this up right now its only whispers and back room chats.. but things need to be readdressed or at least have a serious sit down.

    With our 2A rights and everything going on in the US, I'll take every opportunity I can to help 2A rights and understanding both in the corporate world as well as my social one. So, with that said I'd like to at least discuss with them that the policy is in fact flawed. You may disagree and say well just change your life style or walk away from a job/career.. secondly parking of property is not an option.. I drive my work truck when I take my vehicle so I may head to my appointments right after the first job.

    You also mention court cases.. however if I so chose I could take it to court, many times folks have faught for the right to keep a firearm in their car as part of their 2A and CC rights by the US and the residing state. Stating that they are not liable once I'm on company property is a joke, MANY court cases are made against companies that did not prevent a slip and fall, a severe wound or attack. I would not like to take that route.. but if I had to, I would. This is why I want to sit down and talk to the Wharehouse manager and then the head corporate CEO. If anything I'd just like to put the idea in their head that this isn't a utopian society and very bad things happen to honest hard working people such as myself.. the policy in effect right now is seriously flawed and needs to be readdressed.

    I cannot be a part of the community of firearm owners that just assume everything is going to be okay. I cannot just assume the politicians are not after my firearms and 2A rights every day. I won't just tip-toe around the issue and be a good little boy keep calm and carry on.

    I support open carry and I'm an avid supporter of the Second Amendment. Thus I'd like to see change with my cause just as all those "Green Folks" want to see change with theirs.

    I do see your point from a legal and logical standpoint, however I as well as others have to at least get the ball rolling.
    Since its never came up at my wharehouse I think its time it has. I think communicating concerns and pointing out flaws and issues in with the anti firearm policy at work couldn't hurt at all. Its better than just walking away or ignoring the issue.

    And sorry to the OP for somewhat hijacking the thread. I've said my piece.
     
  16. beavertonbuck

    beavertonbuck Beaverton Active Member

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    You have less rights as an employee of the state versus a citizen of the state. As a citizen there is nothing the college can do to prevent you from concealing on campus; however, in your function as an employee they have that right. I can't find the case and will update later but I believe it involved a high school teacher.

    In regards to private employers I am lucky enough to work with a company that doens't have a weapons policy so I always carry. In my work it is benefical. I have had some friends threatened but it was really hammered home when some threats were made after a court hearing that I was involved in.
     
  17. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    I believe you're referring to Katz v. Medford School District 549C. The court of appeals basically found that govt. agencies can have employee policies prohibiting employees from carrying.
     
  18. sadiesassy

    sadiesassy Prescott Active Member

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    Every company makes a decision. I guess it is dependent on the type of environment and how much legal counselling they have obtained.

    But if you do the statistics - I bet you will find the incidents at an extreme low level in the work place when you compare it to all the people employed. I bet you it is less than 0.005% chance of anything happening at work - Assuming private companies - not governemnt.

    IN fact if I had to think of all the people killed at a company: Here are the top ones that come to mind:
    1. Drove car through wall or doors to kill the person or ran over in parking lot ( 3 times) that is why they have all those cement bunkers in front of places
    2. Knife

    The only place I am concerned is outside work and home. That is where I am concerned

    Remember - even though the company or you may be saved from criminal conviction if something happened - they are not exempt from civil action.
    That is where most people get hit.
    Think OJ - got off with the criminal case and lost it all in civil court.

    So while you may want to save everyone in the workforce - there cn be some unpleasant consequences - That absolutely will severly impact your wife and family.

    Think about it before you end up in the situation . All you need to happen is kill the bad guy and wound a good person - now yu have a big costly legal issue.

    Be smart - INvest an hour of lawyer time - find out the consequences of using your weapon.

    Yes you have rights - so does everyone else. But your life may be decided by a bunch of jurors who donot share your views and only see big financial rewards.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
  19. SteelyDan

    SteelyDan Junction City Active Member

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    I don't put too much stock in statistics because when it's happening to you, you hardly care about a Gallup poll!

    I worked for a large car dealer for several years. Off hand I remember an angry customer brandishing a gun, an employee who went off his rocker and threatened to shoot the manager and drove by the place several times a day. A customer came in and asked to borrow a razor and promptly slit his wrist in front of us, a customer physically grabbed me, another tried to force his way in past a locked door and assault us. Hey, those were the good days LOL.

    Point being, NOBODY can protect you but you! You have to weigh breaking company "policy" against the potential threat to your well being.
     
  20. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    Can you cite a statute? Is this WA state?