Colorado ATF Headquarters

[4Freedom]

With all the sad threads going on, I thought it was time for a humorous one... Need a little more laughter in my somber life.. And, yes this is a true story and I am the photographer

So, I was checking out my new gun range last week, which is outside of the mountain town of Bailey that is not too far from my house.. This town is really cool and they have some interesting buildings. One of the most interesting sites I got to witness was the Colorado headquarters of the ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms).. No, it is not really the building of the notorious federal agency, rather it is just a One-Stop-Shop for all your alcohol, tobacco and firearm needs.. Gotta love Colorado mountain towns This town also is the home of the National Bigfoot Museum.. I had no clue, but this area is the real genuine home of Sasquatch. And, I thought us Oregonians had the claim of Sasquatch all this time.. How fooled I was

Read More

 

[Kruel J]

Too bad CO has crippled itself with nonsense firearm laws. OR isn't too far behind at this rate.

(Former CO resident BTW).

 

[kmk1012]

That's truly a one stop shop!

 

[4Freedom]

Too bad CO has crippled itself with nonsense firearm laws. OR isn't too far behind at this rate.

(Former CO resident BTW).

Kruel.. Nice to meet a native Coloradoan. I guess me and you have switched places... Yes, Colorado has suffered badly due to the liberal politicians here who voted away quite a few rights. The magazine ban was very unfortunate, although it does not seem hardly enforced and it doesn't take much work to get around it. Of course, the state banned private sales and such as well.

However, all that being said, I feel that COlorado, overall is a much more balanced state than Oregon and Washington which now are leaning very much to the left. The Oregon of today is not the Oregon I grew up in which was a much more balanced state and had a more Libertarian lean to it. Sadly, too many people drove up the I-5 and settled in Oregon and then were disgusted that it didn't have the same type of laws, taxes and mentality as where they came from and now the social justice warriors are trying to "FIX" the state. All I can say is that there is no way I can live in Oregon with a crazy nutjob governor like Kate Brown who said she would sign a gun confiscation bill if it ever went to her desk. Hickenlooper is pretty bad, but she is like 10 times worse.

I really miss my home state and there are many times I wish I could live there again. But, I know it will never happen and the state will sooner or later end up even worse than California. I was dying there as a small business and couldn't survive with the insane living costs and 8-10% state tax.

Ugh, I didn't want this thread to devolve into politics, but I have to say I feel more confident about the future of Colorado than I do about the future of Oregon and Washington. There is still a fight to be had here in Colorado , whereas Oregon and Washington I feel will just deteriorate more and more.. But, I can only be hopeful, as I am a Cascadian and those mountains (and Siskiyous) were my home since my youth.

Anyhow, if the political insanity in Oregon is ever too much, you are always welcomed back to Colorado. Of course, people in Oregon need people like you to help support their freedom too and I respect you are there. My parents and brother live in Portland and I come back to visit frequently. The situation is not quite as grim as some say in Colorado though. One advantage COlorado has over Oregon and Washington is that people move here from all over the country, including a lot of Midwesterners and people from Texas. This helps balance out the people who move to Oregon from more liberal regions, such as Los Angeles and San Francisco who move up in droves to Portland and Seattle. I do like that Denver is a melting pot. I'm hoping that we can get more pro-gun politicians in the government here who can help restore our rights. There was a push to rescind the magazine ban and I can only be hopeful.

Denver also has a few gun stores within the city limits that sell ARs and AKs. The city of Seattle no longer even has one gun store thanks to their 25% (or whatever it is) Guns and Ammo tax, among many other laws they passed. I know Portland has a few gun stores, but I am sure the anti-gunners are working at shutting them down.

Oh yes, I am not saying that all people from one part of the country are bad.. There are good people from California, New York and New Jersey too. In fact, one of the board of directors from my gun range is from Long Island and it is a very pro-2nd Amendment gun range, unlike a few other gun ranges I have found.

 

[Hawaiian]

Not only ATF, those green crosses on the sign indicate they have more to smoke than just Marlboro.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Ha, Another fellow Coloradoan, I'm temporary an OryGunion, but i'm from just south west of Divide about 8 miles! Lots of cool places and very Pro 2nd businesses and people!

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Kruel.. Nice to meet a native Coloradoan. I guess me and you have switched places... Yes, Colorado has suffered badly due to the liberal politicians here who voted away quite a few rights. The magazine ban was very unfortunate, although it does not seem hardly enforced and it doesn't take much work to get around it. Of course, the state banned private sales and such as well.

However, all that being said, I feel that COlorado, overall is a much more balanced state than Oregon and Washington which now are leaning very much to the left. The Oregon of today is not the Oregon I grew up in which was a much more balanced state and had a more Libertarian lean to it. Sadly, too many people drove up the I-5 and settled in Oregon and then were disgusted that it didn't have the same type of laws, taxes and mentality as where they came from and now the social justice warriors are trying to "FIX" the state. All I can say is that there is no way I can live in Oregon with a crazy nutjob governor like Kate Brown who said she would sign a gun confiscation bill if it ever went to her desk. Hickenlooper is pretty bad, but she is like 10 times worse.

I really miss my home state and there are many times I wish I could live there again. But, I know it will never happen and the state will sooner or later end up even worse than California. I was dying there as a small business and couldn't survive with the insane living costs and 8-10% state tax.

Ugh, I didn't want this thread to devolve into politics, but I have to say I feel more confident about the future of Colorado than I do about the future of Oregon and Washington. There is still a fight to be had here in Colorado , whereas Oregon and Washington I feel will just deteriorate more and more.. But, I can only be hopeful, as I am a Cascadian and those mountains (and Siskiyous) were my home since my youth.

Anyhow, if the political insanity in Oregon is ever too much, you are always welcomed back to Colorado. Of course, people in Oregon need people like you to help support their freedom too and I respect you are there. My parents and brother live in Portland and I come back to visit frequently. The situation is not quite as grim as some say in Colorado though. One advantage COlorado has over Oregon and Washington is that people move here from all over the country, including a lot of Midwesterners and people from Texas. This helps balance out the people who move to Oregon from more liberal regions, such as Los Angeles and San Francisco who move up in droves to Portland and Seattle. I do like that Denver is a melting pot. I'm hoping that we can get more pro-gun politicians in the government here who can help restore our rights. There was a push to rescind the magazine ban and I can only be hopeful.

Denver also has a few gun stores within the city limits that sell ARs and AKs. The city of Seattle no longer even has one gun store thanks to their 25% (or whatever it is) Guns and Ammo tax, among many other laws they passed. I know Portland has a few gun stores, but I am sure the anti-gunners are working at shutting them down.

Oh yes, I am not saying that all people from one part of the country are bad.. There are good people from California, New York and New Jersey too. In fact, one of the board of directors from my gun range is from Long Island and it is a very pro-2nd Amendment gun range, unlike a few other gun ranges I have found.

Your traffic sucks as much as Portland or Seattle though

 

[4Freedom]

Your traffic sucks as much as Portland or Seattle though

I have lived in both Portland and Seattle area for many years. Denver's traffic is 100 times better than Seattle and a bit better than Portland. Also, the Denver area doesn't have train tracks and bridges everywhere to cause huge traffic jams across the city like Portland and Seattle. Driving and parking in the city of Denver is a breeze compared to Portland. All the train tracks that cross busy streets are elevated over bridges. To be honest, I think Portland's traffic has become atrocious. The Denver area has quite an expansive freeway system and they are building more freeways and increasing the size of the freeways here constantly. In Portland, they have the same freeway system since I first visited there in the 80s. There has been no changes that I can see, except maybe that lane expansion they did on Hwy 26.

One thing I actually have been enjoying about Denver is the lack of traffic, as funny as that sounds. But, I was living in Seattle area before I moved here and there is just no place on Earth as bad. Of course, Denver has the logistical advantage of not having huge bodies of water and mountains barricading it on all sides.

After doing three cross country trips in the last three months now and being stuck in rush hours across the USA, I will have to say Denver's traffic isn't really worse than many cities. In fact, I was stuck in the most gnarly rush hour traffic jams in St. Louis and Kansas CIty that were worse than what I have seen in Denver. Charlotte's traffic can be nasty too. I was living in North Carolina the last two months and the I-77 can also turn into a parking lot.

 

[Caveman Jim]

They say 3rd time is a charm & yet you moved to another top rated gun right infringing city...

I don't think I could do that but it must have been a work related decision for you. Good luck out there.

 

[Caveman Jim]

With all the sad threads going on, I thought it was time for a humorous one... Need a little more laughter in my somber life.. And, yes this is a true story and I am the photographer

So, I was checking out my new gun range last week, which is outside of the mountain town of Bailey that is not too far from my house.. This town is really cool and they have some interesting buildings. One of the most interesting sites I got to witness was the Colorado headquarters of the ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms).. No, it is not really the building of the notorious federal agency, rather it is just a One-Stop-Shop for all your alcohol, tobacco and firearm needs.. Gotta love Colorado mountain towns View attachment 514103 This town also is the home of the National Bigfoot Museum.. I had no clue, but this area is the real genuine home of Sasquatch. And, I thought us Oregonians had the claim of Sasquatch all this time.. How fooled I was View attachment 514104View attachment 514102

That's my kind of GOV store.

 

[bbbass]

After doing three cross country trips in the last three months now and being stuck in rush hours across the USA, I will have to say Denver's traffic isn't really worse than many cities. In fact, I was stuck in the most gnarly rush hour traffic jams in St. Louis and Kansas CIty that were worse than what I have seen in Denver. Charlotte's traffic can be nasty too. I was living in North Carolina the last two months and the I-77 can also turn into a parking lot.

I was delivering RVs for awhile.... I HATE cities, their smog, their congestion, and their traffic. To me all cities are alike!!

 

[4Freedom]

They say 3rd time is a charm & yet you moved to another top rated gun right infringing city...

I don't think I could do that but it must have been a work related decision for you. Good luck out there.

Ironically, outside the mag ban and private sale ban, the gun laws in NOrth Carolina were way more strict than Colorado.. I understand that the Northwest and Colorado use to have the most lenient gun laws on the Earth. Sadly, there is just no place untouched by what I refer to as "fascism".

Yes, I am a software developer and will be possibly needing software work very soon and I also wanted to be near real mountains, as the Appalachians were very far from the urban centers and not really comparable to the Cascades or ROckies. Of course, I don't live right in the city.. I have a view of Rocky mountain foothills from my place and a 20 minute drive puts me into the wilderness and some of very majestic mountain scenery. It doesn't take long in Denver to get away from everything.

However, I think people completely misunderstand Colorado's gun laws compared to places they think are gun friendly. North Carolina and South Carolina actually do more to infringe your Second Amendment rights than Colorado. The magazine ban is a joke and all the law enforcement agencies say they refuse to even enforce it.

However, what shocked me when I moved to Charlotte area was how restrictive the gun laws were and how much of an anti-gun mentality existed there. I have never seen more "No Gun" signs in my life than when I went to North Carolina, not even Seattle had that many No Gun signs. And, unlike Colorado, No Gun Signs have force of law and you can be even convicted of a weapons related felony if you enter the premises of a home/business that has No Guns Signs posted.

NOrth Carolina you need a Concealed Handgun LIcense to even buy a handgun without any hassles, although once you have one, which is a serious effort to get, you can purchase with a NICS bypass. North Carolina requires a pistol purchase permit, which I hear are very tough to get, so you are stuck getting your CHL to even buy a pistol. However, you have to take an 8 hour course with live fire drills, then you have to go down to the Sheriff department go through metal detectors and then wait 3 months for them to get you your permit. You then have to go all the way down to station again to pick it up as they will not mail it to you. It was a hassle.

South Carolina has even worse laws. Open carry is illegal and you can be shot dead ( if you read the laws caerfully) for doing so. It is illegal to carry in a church, which violates 1st/2nd Amendment rights of our Constitution. As well, NOrth Carolina and South Carolina are Must Inform states and if you do not inform an officer you are carrying they have the legal right to shoot you down if they feel necessary. I was reading instances of people being dragged out of their cars or having guns put to their head for both informing and not informing police they are carrying. It is a felony to not inform a police officer there I believe if my memory serves me correct from my 8 hour course. In SOuth Carolina, you have to inform every person whose house you enter you are carrying or you can be convicted of a Class 1 Misdemeanor with weapons offense attached, meaning you will lose your gun rights. Just imagine if you go to someone's house who knows you have a gun, have an argument or something and they call the cops on you out of spite. You lose your gun rights, assuming this law gets enforced as written in the books.

In Colorado, you actually can conceal carry your gun in your car without a permit which is very nice, since even many Constitutional Carry states still require out of state people to have a permit in their state to carry in their car.

Anyhow, after traveling around the country and even living for a very short time in the South, I have to say people don't realize that there is plenty of anti-gun mentality in many other places than the West Coast. The Sheriff deputy who was running for Sheriff In Buncombe county in North Carolina said he would go around killing gun owners who did not turn their guns into him if they pass an Assault Weapon Ban.

In North Carolina and South Carolina, it is a Felony to bring a gun into a school campus and a Class A Misdemeanor (possibly Felony depending on how the officer will write you up) to bring a gun into any property run by state employees, which includes the DMV, garbage dump, welcome centers, Capital building, etc.. They have huge No Gun Signs just letting you know this as well.

I can go on, but as funny as it sounds, I feel like Colorado is so much more gun friendly than the Carolinas, which have some strange reputation of being a gun friendly place. Getting my concealed handgun license in Colorado was a breeze compared to the draconian process in North Carolina. Didn't have to get almost naked with all the metal detectors at my local Sheriff office, but instead a friendly Deputy who opened the door for me with a smile.

My feelings are there is just not as many gun friendly cities out there as we think.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Ironically, outside the mag ban and private sale ban, the gun laws in NOrth Carolina were way more strict than Colorado.. I understand that the Northwest and Colorado use to have the most lenient gun laws on the Earth. Sadly, there is just no place untouched by what I refer to as "fascism".

Yes, I am a software developer and will be possibly needing software work very soon and I also wanted to be near real mountains, as the Appalachians were very far from the urban centers and not really comparable to the Cascades or ROckies. Of course, I don't live right in the city.. I have a view of Rocky mountain foothills from my place and a 20 minute drive puts me into the wilderness and some of very majestic mountain scenery. It doesn't take long in Denver to get away from everything.

However, I think people completely misunderstand Colorado's gun laws compared to places they think are gun friendly. North Carolina and South Carolina actually do more to infringe your Second Amendment rights than Colorado. The magazine ban is a joke and all the law enforcement agencies say they refuse to even enforce it.

However, what shocked me when I moved to Charlotte area was how restrictive the gun laws were and how much of an anti-gun mentality existed there. I have never seen more "No Gun" signs in my life than when I went to North Carolina, not even Seattle had that many No Gun signs. And, unlike Colorado, No Gun Signs have force of law and you can be even convicted of a weapons related felony if you enter the premises of a home/business that has No Guns Signs posted.

NOrth Carolina you need a Concealed Handgun LIcense to even buy a handgun without any hassles, although once you have one, which is a serious effort to get, you can purchase with a NICS bypass. North Carolina requires a pistol purchase permit, which I hear are very tough to get, so you are stuck getting your CHL to even buy a pistol. However, you have to take an 8 hour course with live fire drills, then you have to go down to the Sheriff department go through metal detectors and then wait 3 months for them to get you your permit. You then have to go all the way down to station again to pick it up as they will not mail it to you. It was a hassle.

South Carolina has even worse laws. Open carry is illegal and you can be shot dead ( if you read the laws caerfully) for doing so. It is illegal to carry in a church, which violates 1st/2nd Amendment rights of our Constitution. As well, NOrth Carolina and South Carolina are Must Inform states and if you do not inform an officer you are carrying they have the legal right to shoot you down if they feel necessary. I was reading instances of people being dragged out of their cars or having guns put to their head for both informing and not informing police they are carrying. It is a felony to not inform a police officer there I believe if my memory serves me correct from my 8 hour course. In SOuth Carolina, you have to inform every person whose house you enter you are carrying or you can be convicted of a Class 1 Misdemeanor with weapons offense attached, meaning you will lose your gun rights. Just imagine if you go to someone's house who knows you have a gun, have an argument or something and they call the cops on you out of spite. You lose your gun rights, assuming this law gets enforced as written in the books.

In Colorado, you actually conceal carry your gun in your car without a permit which is very nice, since even many Constitutional Carry states still require out of state people to have a permit in their state to carry in their car.

Anyhow, after traveling around the country and even living for a very short time in the South, I have to say people don't realize that there is plenty of anti-gun mentality in many other places than the West Coast. The Sheriff In Buncombe county in North Carolina said he would go around killing gun owners who did not turn their guns into him if they pass an Assault Weapon Ban.

In North Carolina and South Carolina, it is a Felony to bring a gun into a school campus and a Class A Misdemeanor (possibly Felony depending on how the officer will write you up) to bring a gun into any property run by state employees, which includes the DMV, garbage dump, welcome centers, Capital building, etc.. They have huge No Gun Signs just letting you know this as well.

I can go on, but as funny as it sounds, I feel like Colorado is so much more gun friendly than the Carolinas, which have some strange reputation of being a gun friendly place. Getting my concealed handgun license in Colorado was a breeze compared to the draconian process in North Carolina. Didn't have to get almost naked with all the metal detectors at my local Sheriff office, but instead a friendly Deputy who opened the door for me with a smile.

My feelings are there is just not as many gun friendly cities out there as we think.

This whole country has gone to bubblegum during the last 40 years of Liberalism. They just rub it in our faces is what pizzes me off.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Last time I was home, I spent some time down in the Springs, WOW, what a Chit hole it's becoming, Used to be a pretty cool city, but I was shocked to see all the homeless and a definite rise in crime! I have always avoided Denver unless it's business related of there was a good gun show, but any more I avoid it like the plague! At least my favorite areas are still largely un corrupted ( SO FAR) and I still enjoy living there!

 

[bbbass]

I spent some time down in the Springs, WOW, what a Chit hole it's becoming, Used to be a pretty cool city, but I was shocked to see all the homeless and a definite rise in crime!

Happens every place the Cali's move in.

 

[Boboclown]

Ironically, outside the mag ban and private sale ban, the gun laws in NOrth Carolina were way more strict than Colorado..

Meanwhile I have 30 round magazines and no one bats an eye.

In Colorado pistol purchases require a FFL anyways (unless I was told wrong). Here it just requires a purchase permit or CCW, and don't need to visit a FFL. So other than carry laws, how is Colorado less strict?

 

[4Freedom]

So other than carry laws, how is Colorado less strict?

View attachment 514824

Well, carry laws should not ever be tossed under the table as being insignificant. But, here are a few that come to mind:
1. You can legally carry firearms on college campuses in Colorado. In North Carolina, this is a felony and you will be locked up in prison for many years if caught.
2. No Gun Signs do not have the force of law. In Colorado, No Gun Signs make nice decoration. In the Carolinas (both North and South), if you carry a gun into a business/home with a No Gun Sign and are caught you risk being charged with at least a Class 1/A Misdemeanor and at worse a weapons related felony, depending on how the officer writes you up.
3. No permit required to purchase pistols at a store.
4. Concealed handgun license requires no more than 1 hour firearm safety course and wait times are much less. In North and South Carolina you need to take an very long and exhausting 8 hour course on all the firearm laws of North/South Carolina that also requires you to qualify with a firearm. I did take this course and got my certificate, but it was long and exhausting.
5. Colorado's Stand Your Ground Law is superior to North Carolina's. In Colorado, the "Make My Day" law applies even outside the home. Whereas in North Carolina, the Stand Your Ground/Make My Day law only applies on your own property or car. In my NC CHL course , our instructor said if a car jacker throws you out of your car you cannot pull your gun out and shoot him without having legal problems, since you will have to prove that you had no means of retreat. In Colorado, you do not have the duty to retreat even if you are outside of your car.
6. NOrth and South Carolina require you inform an officer if you carry a gun with you, which can be daunting and put your life at risk for anything from standing in line next to an officer and he starts chatting with you to being pulled over for a traffic stop. Will that nervous rookie be ok when you inform him you are carrying a gun with you and you get pulled over at night in a dark area all alone?
7. In North Carolina you cannot carry a gun into any property run or managed by state employees, which ranges from DMV to the garbage dump. Penalties for violating this statute are severe. THere are no such restrictions in Colorado.
8. South Carolina it is a serious offense to open carry your firearm. This is both legal in Colorado and North Carolina.

Yes, North Carolina allows private sales and that is great.. But I would much rather live in a state that doesn't have MUST INFORM laws over a state that allows private gun sales. Also, North Carolina allows permit holders to bypass NICS and that is great. But, in my opinion, your day to day life being a gun owner who carries a firearm with you is much more challenging in North or South Carolina than it is in Colorado. Buying guns in North Carolina is better after you get your permit.. I will agree.. Every place has advantages and disadvantages over the other. I feel Colorado's advantages outweigh the disadvantages I had in North Carolina.

 

[Boboclown]

NOrth and South Carolina require you inform an officer if you carry a gun with you, which can be daunting and put your life at risk for anything from standing in line next to an officer and he starts chatting with you to being pulled over for a traffic stop. Will that nervous rookie be ok when you inform him you are carrying a gun with you and you get pulled over at night in a dark area all alone?

Don't give off negative energy and you don't get shot, most of police shooting an innocent person is when they go to the wrong house (this applies regardless of state).

you risk being charged with at least a Class 1/A Misdemeanor and at worse a weapons related felony, depending on how the officer writes you up.

You MAY get charged with a misdemeanor (my area you typically get asked to leave then they enforce it after). However, it isn't at least or. You do not get a felony outright for it, only on second visit if charged the first time.

No permit required to purchase pistols at a store.

Here we don't need to go to the store to begin with.

In North Carolina you cannot carry a gun into any property run or managed by state employees, which ranges from DMV to the garbage dump. Penalties for violating this statute are severe. THere are no such restrictions in Colorado.

False, only certain ones (and they'll have a sign letting you know). I told you this before. Signs MAY result in a violation.

Good lawyer makes em petty, and good lawyers are cheap in my neck of the woods.

 

[Boboclown]

But, in my opinion, your day to day life being a gun owner who carries a firearm with you is much more challenging in North or South Carolina than it is in Colorado.

Aside from school, most of which I did online anyways, I have never been somewhere where I couldn't carry.

 

[Boboclown]

And Colorado does in fact enforce their magazine ban, people have been charged for them before. If they find out you have it, doesn't matter what you were doing they can charge you.