Collector's section, perhaps an entire collector's section with subcategories

[EMP9596]

Yeah, and I was gonna add that Nagant ammunition (7.62x38mm) is a bit of a rare bird - one of the biggest drawbacks to using these Eastern Bloc pistols as daily drivers.

Prvi Partizan - Fiocchi put it out and maybe half a dozen firearm/ammo sites handle it, Aim / Ammunition Store / Graf and son... Shipping is the pits though..

 

[Raygun]

Found a box of 50 jacketed flat points through <broken link removed> for $23.49 plus shipping. Definitely not a cheap thrill.

There's a good review of the revolver and ammunition over on Truth About Guns (click here).

 

[BSG 75]

Another regional gun forum, Calguns.net, has a Curio & Relic/Black Powder forum that is fairly active Curio & Relic/Black Powder - Calguns.net

 

[Raygun]

BSG 75 - Thanks for the Calguns.net reference. It sure would be nice to see something like that here. I wonder if this category was an add-on, or part of the original launch?

 

[shooter]

I'd really enjoy a collectors section also. While I enjoy many types of firearms it's the classics that really peak my interests... particularly old lever guns. I used to spend more time on the site, but the last couple of years I've spent a lot of my free time searching the internet for sites that focus more on the old classics rather than the latest craze in everything tactical.

Do any of you have any experience with Rock Island auctions, or have any suggestions on the best way to sell old collectible firearms?

 

[Raygun]

Shooter - Are you contemplating the sale of a single firearm, or an entire collection? Live auction houses like Rock Island are always on the lookout for quality consignments. Typically, the higher the appraised value of your gun, the lower the quoted commission rate. James D. Julia regularly advertises 0% seller's commission on firearms of significant historical/monetary value. It is always a good idea to get commission quotes from at least a couple of auction houses - letting them know that you're shopping around for the best representation for your gun(s).

While you'll pay much lower seller commission rates through online auction sites like GunBroker.com, the trade-off is that you do all the work. Photography, writing firearm condition reports, doing valuation research, arranging for transfers, managing electronic payment accounts, and extracurricular marketing are all on your shoulders. For a single consignment, doing all the legwork might feel like an adventure, but hawking an entire collection could easily turn into seemingly endless days of drudgery.

In today's live-auction world, gun consignors actually enjoy the best of both live-auction expediency and online auction buyer depth. ProxiBid.com and iCollector.com connect online bidders with live auction events across the globe. Rock Island Auction Company, James D. Julia Auctions, and Heritage Auctions all use ProxiBid and iCollector to accept online bids during live-auction sales. Better still, they do all the valuation research, photography, cataloging, and marketing on behalf of the consignors. No need to get involved yourself.

While there are currently no dedicated live-auction firearm auction houses in the Pacific Northwest, a few exist in the California market.

If you're serious about going the auction route, I'd love to learn more about your collection. I've been on the lookout for an opportunity to organize a dedicated Northwest live-auction firearm sale. In addition to being a marketing professional, I also have experience behind the gavel as an auctioneer.

Please do send me a private message about your collection if you don't want to share the wealth on this thread.

 

[Spitpatch]

Here's what I know about auction sites (specifically Rock Island, but applies to Julia, et al, as I understand). There is a fee coming in the door (percentage of block sale), and another cut out the door. (Seller and buyer pay a percentage for the service.) Appraisals furnished to a seller of a potential item are not really that, but more accurately described as block-sale estimates. Naturally, these estimates are intentionally low (as compared to an actual appraisal). The auction house's true customers are the sellers: the auction house wants a happy customer, therefore they want to insure that in almost all cases, the item brings at least, if not more than their estimate. The house also charges a fee for inclusion in their upcoming catalog of the sale, which includes professional photography of the item, etc. This is another reason for their "low ball" estimate: the customer is happy if his fee for cataloguing and photography is recovered in the sale. Raygun is better versed in this, as evidenced by his post. My knowledge is second-hand from buyers and consignors, and he may correct what I understand.

The advantage in these operations to a seller is obviously national or worldwide exposure to serious buyers of resources through professional advertisement. A disadvantage may be realized in comparison to a seller who has the time and labor at his own disposal to find the very right buyer for a potentially higher price. One must realize that a good number of those auction-attending serious buyers with resources are merely dealers, who must buy low in order to return their investment in a timely manner, rather than a collector who will pay top dollar for a gun he needs.

 

[shooter]

Thanks guys for the great information!
I don't have a large number that I'm willing to part with, but I do have a few that I am interested in selling. Over the past few years I've switched gears with my collection and sold or traded off several of my more desirable 'current' manufactured firearms to acquire some of the older classics that I've always admired. Now I find myself wanting to sell off a few of them to fund the purchase of a couple others that I've been longing for, after all it's the hunt that's the most exciting.
I've had relatively good success moving other firearms once my taste have outgrown them, but I've never attempted to sell any of my older guns. Just recently I started spending some time researching the different auction sites, but it all seems a little daunting at first. I don't have a lot of spare time right now, but my work load gets considerably lighter over the winter months, so I'm not opposed to educating myself and tackling the sale on my own. The one variable that I have trouble with is the timeframe in which it may take to move some of them. I feel that going the auction route may put money in my hands sooner than if I marketed them myself on a site like gunbroker. Also, are you allowed to put a reserve or minimum on the purchase price if you go the live auction route, or must you be willing to let the item go at whatever the final bid ends up being? I also ponder if putting my firearms on a site like Rock Island would diminish some of their attractiveness because of some of the ridiculously beautiful pieces listed there. I guess there are collectors of all levels, so hopefully there would be a buyer or two for my items.
Obviously with the downturn in the economy there are fewer individuals out there with the means to purchase some of the higher end guns, yet I would think that many collectors are still buying and perhaps even 'investing' in collectable firearms to a greater degree. What's your guys take on this and do you feel anytime is as good as another, or would one be better off waiting for things to recover a bit before trying to move higher end firearms?
Thanks again for all of the help and shared wisdom.

Raygun-I sent you a PM with the guns I'm considering parting ways with.

 

[shooter]

One more quick question.
Is there a reference that you guys would recommend for rating the condition of older firearms? Specifically old Winchester levers? I am aware of the NRA condition standars and grading criteria guide found in the BB of gun values, but it seems like everyone has a different opinion as to a guns condition rating.

 

[Spitpatch]

Condition criteria is difficult to "write down", although you found the standard (as written). I would wager that if you showed a certain gun to five different collectors, you would get five different (sometimes significantly different) ratings as to its condition. (One man's "good" is another man's "very good", and "very good" for a 100-year old gun may be only "good" for a 50-year old gun). The written standard is a guideline, and it tries to be as specific as it can. Then again, guaging against such specifics, one man's "80 percent blue" is another man's (usually the seller) "90 percent blue". This recognized chance of disparity is the central reason that "approval time" (3days, 5 days, etc.) is almost universally granted to the buyer of a gun he has not yet held in his hands. Beware of sellers who will not offer this. Understandably, the buyer is responsible for safe return of the gun (and expense to do so) if it does not meet his approval. This (nearly) eliminates hard feelings. The internet, along with digital photography has been a great improvement toward mutual satisfaction.

Collectors who have been in the game for a long time can very often appraise a gun quite accurately without consulting a Blue Book or other reference, IF it is in their chosen area of expertise. The "Rennaisance Man" of all collectable guns is very rare, if not non-existant. (In other words, a Colt collector is not the best guy to go to for an appraisal on a Winchester.) A good and honest collector (yes, there are some) will join with the seller in consulting the collector's library of books that quite often are NOT concerned with assigning value: he will enjoy the exploration and education that both parties receive in the research to learn all about a particular gun, its variations, etc., whether or not he ends up purchasing the gun. Very often, a "novice" to collecting can hold more knowledge about a certain model he has dedicated himself to than a seasoned collector who has not concentrated on that model. A purported collector that reaches first for the Blue Book is probably not well-versed toward the gun under consideration, unless that is the only reference available at the time. A collector who professes his ignorance (but willingness to learn) about a particular gun is of more value to the seller than the collector who professes or projects his flawless, indisputable expertise.

As to "good time or not to sell", I can offer this: At the recent Antique Arms show in Portland (NOT the monthly beanie-baby/black gun fest at the Expo Center), I was impressed with the amounts and regularity of money changing hands. One table-holder commented: "Apparently the gun-collecting community has not yet heard of any recession." This may be partly due to the propensity of serious collectors' finances to not be hard-connected to the overall national economy, but rather somewhat secured and apart from it. Quality guns in decent condition will always bring a good price.

I wish not to step on toes, but would politely ask to be considered when you forward information about any older guns you wish to sell, when your interaction with Raygun is complete. I am a collector, not a dealer, and hold a very extensive library (my ersatz, printed "Rennaisance Man") that can be at your disposal.

 

[EMP9596]

I might add that there is a very knowledgeable avid long time Winchester lever gun collector in the Eugene area. He is a member of the Willamette Valley Collectors Association who on occassion will set up just a few (<:}- of his rifles at one of the Eugene shows. I would be proud to own some of his second string rifles.

 

[shooter]

I know what you mean by showing an item to 5 different people and getting 5 different cdondition ratings. I feel like I tend to rate guns a little lower condition than most. I'm always puzzled by the ratings I see sellers give their guns on gunbroker. It's obvious that many of those sellers are hoping to stumble accross a buyer who simply takes their condition rating as true.
I would have to classify myself as a novice collector. I have gained a lot of knowledge over the last few years, but as you stated most of my knowledge is specific to the model/variations that I own or have considered purchasing.
No worry about stepping on any toes. I sent Raygun a list in hopes of getting more direction on an avenue in which to possibly sell a few that I could part with. I've been thinking lately about trying to move a few of them, but I'm currently just trying to do some homework before I actually take the leap. My intention is to attempt to sell them later this winter when my schedule isn't soo crazy. I'll send you a list of the rifles in question.

 

[Raygun]

Wow! I get distracted by a few house projects, only to find that the whole world has joined the conversation about Shooter's firearms. Now who's going rogue Spitpatch - LOL!

There is some great advice being thrown around on this thread. I totally agree with Spitpatch's monologue on gun valuation. Most auction houses retain a cadre of collecting consultants they can call on to help determine a high and low estimate for a particular firearm. The estimate range generally reflects the price either a dealer or private collector might pay for a given gun. Blue Book values might play a foundational role in setting the high/low estimate, but the provenance (history) of a firearm can also dramatically influence buyer interest. Two rifles of the same vintage/finish/grade can garner wildly different hammer prices dependent on perceived rarity and provenance.

Regarding the setting of seller reserve prices, it absolutely is an option if the seller is worried about not getting what he or she wants/needs when the consignment crosses the auction block. To keep sellers from merely running their arms across the block (with a high reserve), to see what their gun might bring at a later sale, the auction house may charge a flat fee to the seller on unsold lots to discourage this practice. Nevertheless, setting a reserve is always an option.

Shooter was kind enough to send me a list of the firearms he is considering for future sale. Very impressive. If I was a little further along with my plans to establish a permanent Northwest firearms auction, I'd be honored to represent him at auction. That said, I hope that we can all help Shooter find the information/resources he is looking for to become an informed seller.

I thought everyone might be interested in reading this Paul Fraser Collectibles interview of James D. Julia ( <broken link removed> ). The interview was conducted in October 2011, and Mr. Julia predicts that firearms sales will remain strong in 2012. Good news for sellers!

 

[Raygun]

For anybody that's interested in seeing what an auction house seller contract looks like, Pacific Galleries makes theirs available for inspection on their website (click here).

Apologies in advance for not being able to point to a firearms contract. I'm still looking.