Collector's section, perhaps an entire collector's section with subcategories

[Spitpatch]

I am an enthusiast and hard-frequent poster on this website, appreciating the effort it takes to moderate and maintain.

The website seems to lean and cater to the more modern guns and their enthusiasts, and I fully recognize that this may well be the future and the secure foundation of the sport/interest as it seems to trend. I participate in discussions and learn about these newer guns every day here.

As a suggestion of expansion and catering to a wider audience, I would strongly recommend at least one category (or multiple categories under a single title), of those of us who gravitate toward the collecting side of firearms interest.

Certainly this would include the commonly recognized categories of "Winchester, Colt's, etc." , but could also certainly include subcategories of even more modern guns that may well hold collector and investment interest: I am ignorant in these areas, but I firmly believe there may well be versions of Glocks and AR15's that would fall in the collector category.

I think the Founders and Moderators of this website are really missing a big boat if they do not expand into the collecting/investing portion of gun interest. Certainly there are nationwide websites that cater to these specific interests, but NWFA could do well to expand their forum base to accomodate this important venue, and perhaps even come to compete (at least regionally) with some of the "nationwide big boys".

Give it a thought.

Spitpatch

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[EMP9596]

As a C&R licensee I would also love to see something like this.
There is a lot of knowledge on this site and we all have our favorites when it comes to firearms. Mine happen to be 1911's and bolt action military carbines. This would also possibly give C&R holders a place to show and tell their firearms and also expose their passion to other members. It could also be benificial if we knew which members were holding C&R's as I am only aware of two others on the site and have no idea what their collecting preferances are?

mjd

 

[Mark W.]

Count me I'm really not into any non handguns that don't have wood stocks. And the Lego rifles do nothing for me (rifles built from parts) I realize that you can discuss any rifle in the rifle category it would just seam to get lost in the discussions of AR 15 collapsible stocks and such.

 

[coosbaycreep]

I honestly don't think the rifle/handgun sections we have now generate enough posts to add new categories. Even some of the bigger national forums don't have seperate sections for "collectors", because there's just not enough posts about them to warrant their own section.

And what would be the purpose of a collector section anyway? So gun snobs with fancy schmancy high dollar guns that don't even shoot them can brag about their "investments"? Sounds lame to me.

Screw the colts and winchesters, what I think this board really needs is a category specifically for hi-points and jennings.

 

[wichaka]

I will put it to the Admin., and see what we can do.

 

[Mark W.]

I honestly don't think the rifle/handgun sections we have now generate enough posts to add new categories. Even some of the bigger national forums don't have seperate sections for "collectors", because there's just not enough posts about them to warrant their own section.

And what would be the purpose of a collector section anyway? So gun snobs with fancy schmancy high dollar guns that don't even shoot them can brag about their "investments"? Sounds lame to me. screw the colts and winchesters, what I think this board really needs is a category specifically for hi-points and jennings.

Interesting screenname, I really like you open minded comments on my hobby and my person. Maybe your the reason some of us would like a subforum that deals more with the part of the gun owning/shooting hobby that existed for a couple hundred years before the Black gun crowd showed up.

But don't let me crimp your style. I'll just sit here rubbing my Winchester (sorry no Colts would a Remington do?)

 

[wayoutwest]

While I know nothing about the collector grade firearms or status/value of any old firearm, I would be interested in a possible sub forum to the Rifle/Pistol section or General firearm for C&R...since I do have my license and should start using it again.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

The problem I see is who decides what falls into this category? I can see some people thinking their SKS is a collectors firearm, or some other firearms that may actually fall on the boundaries.

 

[Tangent123123]

I would question if there is enough activity to warrant a bunch of sub-categories. But I'd at least start with General C&R Forum maybe and if it gets a lot of postings, open it up a bit further. It's not my type of thing, but we are all here for related but different reasons. So I'd support it.

 

[Spitpatch]

I honestly don't think the rifle/handgun sections we have now generate enough posts to add new categories. Even some of the bigger national forums don't have seperate sections for "collectors", because there's just not enough posts about them to warrant their own section.

And what would be the purpose of a collector section anyway? So gun snobs with fancy schmancy high dollar guns that don't even shoot them can brag about their "investments"? Sounds lame to me.

Screw the colts and winchesters, what I think this board really needs is a category specifically for hi-points and jennings.

Well! I thought I was pretty clear about collecting being perhaps applicable to a wide range of guns, including AR's and Glocks and such, as well as recognition that this is demonstrably the coming wave/future of our shared interest. But if that was not comprehended by some, I apologize. My reading abilities are also hampered by public school education, so I can certainly relate to that handicap, and take responsiblity for not being more clear.

As to "fancy schmancy high dollar guns that don't even shoot them...sounds lame...", I'll finish with this:



Winchester Model 1876, Manufactured 1884, caliber .45-60. When asked if he thought this was "lame", the reclining gentleman had no reply.

 

[EMP9596]

The problem I see is who decides what falls into this category? I can see some people thinking their SKS is a collectors firearm, or some other firearms that may actually fall on the boundaries.

Not trying to school you here but C & R refers to Curios and Relics. One of the best examples here is the Mosin which in "full military condition" is a collectible under ATF rules. It can be purchased by a C&R holder directly from an "licensed" importer/supplier to enrich his collection or hobby. The C&R can dispose of a firearm in his collection to another C&R holder or a private party under ATF regulations and there is minimal paperwork involved. (Not going to get into a lot of detail on it here.)

A lot of ATF listed collectable weapons "Are Not" high price No shootem's but are in the low price range today but in twenty years who knows.
I can remember when you could find excellent Enfield jungle carbines for 30 to 50 dollars each, and now wish I had brought a dozen

Example: I have an Very nice (new & unissued) full military condition M59/66 SKS for sale on this site that is a C&R Firearm under ATF Regs. I can sell this rifle to a Oregon resident if he comes to the address on my FFL-003 license and has Valid ID to enter in my Bound Book.

*NOTE: FFL-003's Are Not Allowed to earn a livelyhood from firearms.

C&R Info:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html


Like I said above I am not trying to "school" anyone here just spread a little awareness. (I Hope)

mjd

 

[coosbaycreep]

Well! I thought I was pretty clear about collecting being perhaps applicable to a wide range of guns, including AR's and Glocks and such, as well as recognition that this is demonstrably the coming wave/future of our shared interest. But if that was not comprehended by some, I apologize. My reading abilities are also hampered by public school education, so I can certainly relate to that handicap, and take responsiblity for not being more clear.

As to "fancy schmancy high dollar guns that don't even shoot them...sounds lame...", I'll finish with this:



Winchester Model 1876, Manufactured 1884, caliber .45-60. When asked if he thought this was "lame", the reclining gentleman had no reply.

About the only ARs that can be considered collectable is colts, and unless you have a super rare .380 glock, those are about as far from being a collector type gun as you can get. The guns you're suggesting are already covered in the general forum we have now, which BTW, goes back 10 days on the first page of the rifle/shotgun section alone, and there's only 3 or 4 threads on that first page that are about guns that MIGHT be considered collector guns. I didn't see any threads acting about the "collectability" of certain firearms either.

I just don't think there's enough demand for another gun category when the ones we already have don't get that much traffic as it is.

When you factor in inflation, a lot of guns that people tend to think of as good investments really aren't that good of investments afterall. The good thing about "investing" in guns as opposed to gold, cars, etc., is that guns are something you can actually use on a regular basis and still get most of your money (sometimes more) back when you're bored with it, and a whole section devoted to "collecting/investing" seems like a lousy idea until this site gets enough members to justify it.

Having a gun just to have it is like food you're not going to eat, a car you're not going to drive, or a girlfriend you're not going to have sex with. I think it's pointless, but then again, I like bumpfiring tec-9s at dirt clods and pop cans, so to each his own.

And one more thing, I see that despite being a "hard-frequent poster", you're not a supporting member here. Maybe you ought to pony up a $20 bill and contribute something financially to this site before suggesting new categories.

 

[Spitpatch]

If the idea goes through, and one believes it is a "lousy idea", one need not participate.

I also was not aware that I was overstepping any entitlements granted by my attendance here by posting a well-thought suggestion. If $20 would somehow in the eyes of some grant more credence to such, I may well consider it.

Some might consider the lack of threads/posts about collectibility on this site to be good evidence such a category is needed.

And, as always all here have a promise from me that I will never engage in name-calling. I am aware I cannot ask the same promise from others.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

Not trying to school you here but C & R refers to Curios and Relics. One of the best examples here is the Mosin which in "full military condition" is a collectible under ATF rules. It can be purchased by a C&R holder directly from an "licensed" importer/supplier to enrich his collection or hobby. The C&R can dispose of a firearm in his collection to another C&R holder or a private party under ATF regulations and there is minimal paperwork involved. (Not going to get into a lot of detail on it here.)

A lot of ATF listed collectable weapons "Are Not" high price No shootem's but are in the low price range today but in twenty years who knows.
I can remember when you could find excellent Enfield jungle carbines for 30 to 50 dollars each, and now wish I had brought a dozen

Example: I have an Very nice (new & unissued) full military condition M59/66 SKS for sale on this site that is a C&R Firearm under ATF Regs. I can sell this rifle to a Oregon resident if he comes to the address on my FFL-003 license and has Valid ID to enter in my Bound Book.

*NOTE: FFL-003's Are Not Allowed to earn a livelyhood from firearms.

C&R Info:
ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Curios & Relics


Like I said above I am not trying to "school" anyone here just spread a little awareness. (I Hope)

mjd

I know all about C&R, but not all collectible firearms are under C&R (ie some M1 garands, ect).

But I would understand if the section only applied to C&R firearms, as there is a list for those, but simply stating "collectible" firearms can create a huge generalization.

I would be in support of a C&R section though, as there are quite a few devotees around. (and just leave it at that for now until there is enough interest for an "other" collectible section)

 

[Spitpatch]

Venues of huge generalizations already exist on the site, ("General Firearms Discussion", "Rifle and Shotgun Discussion", etc.). It is difficult to imagine that creating one less-generalized would be an obstacle. My original suggestion was toward a "discussion" forum (or forums), rather than classified forum. Worries about "what qualifies", etc. and policing of such are difficult to imagine as well, especially if I am right about collectable AR's, Glocks and such. One gentleman stipulates (contrary to my original uninformed speculation) there are practically no collectable AR's or Glocks. Another gentleman proves his SKS qualifies as C&R.

The C&R suggestion of qualification I think is too strict. Though my interests run to the older guns, such a qualification would exclude those interested in collecting Remington Model 81's, or even Smith and Wessons of somewhat "modern" manufacture, for example. Both very collectable, though not qualifying under C & R.

Bottom line, I don't believe the category of "Collectables" would need much babysitting compared to any other category. AR, Glock, SKS guys wouldn't hang around it very long (or would be welcomed in the case of a guy who had an SKS he could show was truly collectable). Tec9 guys who shoot at dirt clods apparently would think it was lame, and so may not attend either. Snobs like me who have Sheridan Knockabouts, Benjamin air rifles and Iver Johnson pistols (all high-dollar and fancy schmancy, of course) could have a place to discuss how we might invest enough in them to return twenty dollars profit: allowing what we contribute here to be somewhow endowed with more integrity.

 

[dolooper]

I just don't think there's enough demand for another gun category when the ones we already have don't get that much traffic as it is.

It's nearly impossible to measure demand for a service that doesn't exist yet. That there is not much traffic in the more generalized forums for information on collectibles tells us only that there is not much traffic. Even with clickstream analysis, it's difficult to answer the "why" some traffic patterns. We don't know if folks come here and bail out on discussing the subject because there is no logical or conveniently-named area to do so.

I support the notion. I doubt I'd contribute a lot, but I know I'd be a frequent reader. Indeed, creating such an area may drive demand for the web site as a whole. It may not, but it seems it should be possible to archive the forums category/sub-forums if it doesn't work out. It strikes me as a low-risk, likely low-effort, and potentially high-reward thing to do.

Don't read or post if it doesn't interest you. It does interest me.

 

[Spitpatch]

Well, there's the analytical breakdown, including isolation of unknowns.

 

[Ownerus]

In the interim, might I suggest those that have older interesting firearms post small articles about them?

I like old and modern stuff. There's been a lot of interesting engineering on firearms over the years, much of it no longer common. Not because it didn't work well but maybe it was too expensive to stay in production. Interesting nonetheless. While old guns may sometimes serve as an investment, that's a side issue to me (and a rationalization I give my wife ) . What I enjoy is the machinery and the history. A lot of the older stuff has disappeared and is virtually unknown to the younger set. Introducing them to the vast variety of guns and mechanisms can't help but generate some interest. You're unlikely to be interested in something you don't know exists. Maybe those who can will be able to introduce others to interesting and unique guns. Then a special section might be more in demand.

edited to add: Beautiful pic of the 1876 BTW. Long on my list of wants..unfortunately, the graphs of cost and my income have opposites slopes...

 

[Wierzbowski]

As a C&R licensee, I think the idea of a C&R section is a great idea. The thing that I appreciate the most about guns is the history that they represent. Was my 1916 Australian Lee Enfield at the **** that was Ypres in 1917 when 140,000 Allied soldiers died? Did my 1944 Inglis High Power float down on the hip of a British 1st Airborne Division parachutist into Arnhem? Maybe, and that's why these guns are so interesting to me.

Talking with people who appreciate these pieces for the history that they represent and who are also interested in learning more and sharing the knowledge that they have would be great. Especially valuable would be the opportunity to meet up with similarly-interested people and discuss our collections.

And to anyone who thinks that "collectible" is synonymous with "expensive" or "fancy", forget it. I've never paid over $300 for one of the guns in my collection.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

I posted a mod discussion about making a C&R section after this was posted, will know the consensus soon. Hope that we can make room for one!