Clark County folds - No longer responding to calls of property damage, theft & assault.

[EHJ]

Wrong assumption.

While LE may not show up at the time of the incident, the amount of resources devoted to tracking down and prosecuting the "vigilante" will be enormous compared to solving/prosecuting a "normal" crime.

This is because of several factors:
1) Those involved in the Criminal Justice System realize that they can only operate if the public wholeheartedly supports them and believes that they are the best way to keep crime at bay. Successful vigilantism builds a belief that the CJS is dysfunctional and creates a threat to their power by fostering disrespect.
2) In many places, those with power over the CJS WANT criminals to go unpunished or be lightly punished.
3) Vigilantism is disruptive to society. Please note that this is different from #1, above. Vigilantism lacks structure, resulting in many unfair results. A point can be reached quite quickly where no one is safe, even the law-abiding.
4) Vigilantism is not self-defense. An armed populace with strong legal protections for those using self-defense is a strong deterrent to both criminal behavior and vigilantism.

Police your brass.

 

[SonicBlue03]

Wrong assumption.

While LE may not show up at the time of the incident, the amount of resources devoted to tracking down and prosecuting the "vigilante" will be enormous compared to solving/prosecuting a "normal" crime.

This is because of several factors:
1) Those involved in the Criminal Justice System realize that they can only operate if the public wholeheartedly supports them and believes that they are the best way to keep crime at bay. Successful vigilantism builds a belief that the CJS is dysfunctional and creates a threat to their power by fostering disrespect.
2) In many places, those with power over the CJS WANT criminals to go unpunished or be lightly punished.
3) Vigilantism is disruptive to society. Please note that this is different from #1, above. Vigilantism lacks structure, resulting in many unfair results. A point can be reached quite quickly where no one is safe, even the law-abiding.
4) Vigilantism is not self-defense. An armed populace with strong legal protections for those using self-defense is a strong deterrent to both criminal behavior and vigilantism.

No, it won't. Through the skewed lens of a LEO it might seem that way, but reality - especially now - doesn't support that. Multnomah County is batting almost .500 or less in solving any violent action right now. Resourcing is a problem, drive is a problem, and if people are willing to be intellectually honest about it, quality in training is a problem.

 

[BDA.45]

Wrong assumption.

While LE may not show up at the time of the incident, the amount of resources devoted to tracking down and prosecuting the "vigilante" will be enormous compared to solving/prosecuting a "normal" crime.

I digress. A downed tree with a good root ball and a chain saw solves that issue. Also keep in mind, 2 people can't keep a secret.......just sayn.
Seasoned veteran tweakers go missing for days/weeks at a time....maybe forever. Also just sayn...

 

[Provincial]

Or leave "evidence" of a drug deal gone bad. When resources are limited, a false trail is far more effective.

 

[gmerkt]

I'll bet they still respond to somebody doing 35 in a 25. If it generates money they will still respond.

Locally, I don't see routine stops along the road as I used to. At state level, there were stats released recently that showed a significant decline in the number of stops made by the WSP year over year. There may be multiple components to this. (1) Covid. (2) therefore to some extent staffing (3) Mindset of, "Is this the stop that could end my career?" I wonder if some officers see a person of color behind the wheel, decide to give them a pass to avoid potential downsides.

The "cash cameras" in some cities are still flashing away. Over time we'll probably see adoption of more of those. Even before Covid, the southwest part of my county only had two dedicated traffic officers. I live in an out-of-the-way area, a semi-rural pocket (more semi than rural these days). A year or more can go by between times that I see a black and white go by on the road.

I tell everyone to steer clear of LE work

What a shame it is, as much sense as it makes in current context. Which leads to the idea that the best people may be leaving the force. Those with the best set of brains to see what the situation is and the imagination to go down a different path. Which is probably somewhat unfair, at some point in life, people get locked into their jobs by circumstances. Still, we've got city police in this region who've transferred to suburbs as a partial work-around.

 

[whiskeybill]

This isn't isolated to Clark County. It's an issue nationwide. Police are burnt out and tired of the way things are going. The government in Olympia has pretty much hog tied police across the state, and increased liability to not just agencies, but to individual officers. Now it's a mentality of "Go on shift and don't leave the cruiser". Early retirements for those eligible, younger officers going elsewhere (if they can find a job elsewhere), or just finding another career. Younger folks who maybe thought of a career in LE are shying away from that. Who can blame them? Things are going to get much rougher around these parts before they get better.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

It has been this way for a long time now in Portland. Police simply won't respond. You have to adapt imo. Assume no one is coming and that the purpose of 911 is for documentation and that's all.

Fwiw I have been paying attention to citizen response to crimes (including armed) in Pdx and the only prosecutions of citizen defenders I have seen involve against protesters or right wing vs left wing stuff. Take that for what u will. Just my observations. Actual deadly shootings in most cases we don't know what actually happened so I'm not referring to those. I mean where perp was stopped or detained by Good Samaritan with firearm.

For example:

Portland business owner recovers stolen truck and cat converters with gun

They said he has recovered 62 stolen vehicles so far. This is the same guy about a month ago who was in the news for chasing off thieves from his business by shooting them with rock salt. This guy needs to run for mayor...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[malakajim]

This isn't isolated to Clark County. It's an issue nationwide. Police are burnt out and tired of the way things are going. The government in Olympia has pretty much hog tied police across the state, and increased liability to not just agencies, but to individual officers. Now it's a mentality of "Go on shift and don't leave the cruiser". Early retirements for those eligible, younger officers going elsewhere (if they can find a job elsewhere), or just finding another career. Younger folks who maybe thought of a career in LE are shying away from that. Who can blame them? Things are going to get much rougher around these parts before they get better.

I don't agree that this is a national problem. This last fall I traveled to Cincinnati for work and it was a different world from the PNW. Did not see a single tent village and I was in the heart of the city. Came across LEO at a lunch spot just outside CI and they were quite content. None of the drama we see out here on the "lost coast". The blue plague has wreaked it's havoc here, but it's not nationwide.

 

[Jay Walk]

We all know there is no response, so Why Advertise?

LGB

 

[Member 53328]

I don't agree that this is a national problem. This last fall I traveled to Cincinnati for work and it was a different world from the PNW. Did not see a single tent village and I was in the heart of the city. Came across LEO at a lunch spot just outside CI and they were quite content. None of the drama we see out here on the "lost coast". The blue plague has wreaked it's havoc here, but it's not nationwide.

Nationwide in regards to democratic (blue) ran/controlled cities and urban areas.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Police your brass.


View attachment 1155312

SS & S….

 

[Martini_Up]

I don't agree that this is a national problem. This last fall I traveled to Cincinnati for work and it was a different world from the PNW. Did not see a single tent village and I was in the heart of the city. Came across LEO at a lunch spot just outside CI and they were quite content. None of the drama we see out here on the "lost coast". The blue plague has wreaked it's havoc here, but it's not nationwide.

Agreed. It isn't everywhere… and I've found it does seem to follow in the wake of blue voting populace.

And Im blown away that those blue voting people dont see it. Will complain about the drug addicted homeless, the crime they bring, the lack of law their politicians / CA's allow, the high taxes…. Constantly complaining about these and other things and yet will never vote for anything other than D.

Portland hasn't VOTED in a R mayor since the 1950's…. Now you get why Portland is how it is and it has spread to Clark Co. But these brain-dead, media- tranced blue voters would rather watch the world around them turn into a absolute and literal cesspool before voting in anything else than a democrat. Then complain about how much the cesspool stinks and never once think it was because of their own $hitty voting that caused it.

im happy I don't live along I-5 anymore. When is that 9.0 hitting again???

 

[Stomper]

Agreed. It isn't everywhere… and I've found it does seem to follow in the wake of blue voting populace.

And Im blown away that those blue voting people dont see it. Will complain about the drug addicted homeless, the crime they bring, the lack of law their politicians / CA's allow, the high taxes…. Constantly complaining about these and other things and yet will never vote for anything other than D.

Portland hasn't VOTED in a R mayor since the 1950's…. Now you get why Portland is how it is and it has spread to Clark Co. But these brain-dead, media- tranced blue voters would rather watch the world around them turn into a absolute and literal cesspool before voting in anything else than a democrat. Then complain about how much the cesspool stinks and never once think it was because of their own $hitty voting that caused it.

im happy I don't live along I-5 anymore. When is that 9.0 hitting again???

Frank Ivancie was the PDX Mayor from '80 through '85, and although a Democrat was a conservative and pro-business. He was also a member of "Democrats for Regan".

The beginning of the decline of PDX started with Bud (WHOOP-WHOOP) Clark (self proclaimed "born again pagan") defeating Frank Ivancie in Ivancie's bid for re-election….. Bud Clark was an F-ing moron, then proceeding mayors got worse and worse, dumber and dumber…. That's what progressives mean by "progress".

 

[Provincial]

Frank Ivancie was the PDX Mayor from '80 through '85, and although a Democrat was a conservative and pro-business. He was also a member of "Democrats for Regan".

The beginning of the decline of PDX started with Bud (WHOOP-WHOOP) Clark (self proclaimed "born again pagan") defeating Frank Ivancie in Ivancie's bid for re-election….. Bud Clark was an F-ing moron, then proceeding succeeding mayors got worse and worse, dumber and dumber…. That's what progressives mean by "progress".

The mayors following, not the ones going ahead. It confuses people who are trying to describe mayors of Portland, Oregon, because the word "succeeding" implies "success" when all have been failures when viewed objectively.

Bud Clark defeated Frank Ivancie in May of 1984. Clark was rumored to be connected to the drug trade (not necessarily dealing himself) and that may have been the financial support for his political career. Early on he appointed Penny Harrington police chief, and was forced to dismiss her after "An investigative report characterized her administration as a failure after 17 months.[" (Wikipedia) I can find no reference on the internet to her reported linkage to corruption, which was widely reported at the time. According to KOIN, "Clark also established the city's first 12-point homeless plan. A homeless shelter in Northwest Portland is still named for him to this day."

Drugs and Social Justice run deep in Portland, it is a real success story! (see, I used the word success and Portland in the same sentence!)

 

[VanceInWA]

A loser decision. Sheriff Atkins won't respond to crime? Screw that bull puckey. That douche won't be getting my vote. And to make matters worse, now we're witnessing the blame game: blame the County Council, blame Covid, blame funding, blah blah blah. Following Brandon's playbook and blaming everyone else instead of stepping up to actually lead sure doesn't sit well with me either.

 

[VanceInWA]

The mayors following, not the ones going ahead. It confuses people who are trying to describe mayors of Portland, Oregon, because the word "succeeding" implies "success" when all have been failures when viewed objectively.

Not all Portland mayors have been failures. It requires a reach back into history, but at least one Portland mayor was outstanding: Dorothy McCullough Lee. Now that lady could lead, and succeeded in taking on organized crime that was rampant in Portland at the time. We'll probably never see that quality of leadership in Portland again...

 

[Provincial]

Not all Portland mayors have been failures. It requires a reach back into history, but at least one Portland mayor was outstanding: Dorothy McCullough Lee. Now that lady could lead, and succeeded in taking on organized crime that was rampant in Portland at the time. We'll probably never see that quality of leadership in Portland again...

Ironically, her success in rooting out crime also resulted in her ouster by those profiting from organized crime and low moral values. (sad face)

 

[Alexx1401]

Election time will roll around soon enough. Lets see if the voters there have had enough yet or if they vote for more of what they asked for.

 

[whiskeybill]

I don't agree that this is a national problem. This last fall I traveled to Cincinnati for work and it was a different world from the PNW. Did not see a single tent village and I was in the heart of the city. Came across LEO at a lunch spot just outside CI and they were quite content. None of the drama we see out here on the "lost coast". The blue plague has wreaked it's havoc here, but it's not nationwide.

"Nationwide" is a bit misleading, but the issue is still prevalent in many large cities across the country. Minneapolis / St Paul, Chicago, Detroit, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Denver, and likely taking hold in other places. You get the picture. My hometown of Billings, Montana is even getting to the point I wouldn't want to live there again. The recent "Great Migration" showed quite a few Colorado plates moving into Montana, along with Washington and Oregon plates. Homeless populations increasing and police confrontations with more bad guys. Portland and Seattle were nice places to live and visit 40 years ago. Now I wouldn't go into either of these cities except to drive through on the way to somewhere else, not stopping at all.

I do know some folks in Cincinnati, all pretty conservative, and I understand Ohio just went to Constitutional Carry if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Stomper]

The mayors following, not the ones going ahead. It confuses people who are trying to describe mayors of Portland, Oregon, because the word "succeeding" implies "success" when all have been failures when viewed objectively.

Bud Clark defeated Frank Ivancie in May of 1984. Clark was rumored to be connected to the drug trade (not necessarily dealing himself) and that may have been the financial support for his political career. Early on he appointed Penny Harrington police chief, and was forced to dismiss her after "An investigative report characterized her administration as a failure after 17 months.[" (Wikipedia) I can find no reference on the internet to her reported linkage to corruption, which was widely reported at the time. According to KOIN, "Clark also established the city's first 12-point homeless plan. A homeless shelter in Northwest Portland is still named for him to this day."

Drugs and Social Justice run deep in Portland, it is a real success story! (see, I used the word success and Portland in the same sentence!)

Yes the English language is complicated, and (I hear) one of the most difficult for ESL speakers to learn and fully comprehend (for just such reason as stated)….. it's generally not a language (when used comprehensively) for dummies.