Chaos at the range

[Spitpatch]

When I bought the "Gun of the Year" at a Friends of NRA banquet about 17 years ago, it came with a certificate for a free one-year membership to a local gun club. After going through the new member orientation, I never went back. They had enough rules to suck the fun right out of shooting there. I believe I'm a very safe shooter - drilled into me at an early age by my father. As we try to recruit more shooters into the fold, I wonder how much a 6-hour new member orientation hurts the cause.

There are aspects of my life that are generally more associated with evangelism than shooting. And in those things I am not an evangelist. With shooting, I am.

It is not a requirement for a Christian to be an evangelist. If he is a shooter, he damned well better start being one.

 

[RedRover]

Here's what I was trained to do decades ago and what I follow to this day. Also, this is codified in the operational procedures of the private range I belong to now - it it has been similarly codified in the operational manuals of every other range I've belonged to. I would venture to say that the following protocol is universally accepted in the firearms world.

If there is no Range Safety Officer present, and If I am the person calling the range "cold" or "hot" - I am the person in control of the range for that time period and as such, I am responsibility for all aspects of safety during that particular instance - the moment of calling the range either cold or hot.

To that end, it is my responsibility to make sure that BEFORE I call the range "cold", I have spoken to everyone on the firing line, made sure everyone agreed to go cold, that their firearms are chamber flagged and that everyone had stepped back from the firing-line / shooting table/bench and no firearms are being handled. Only then would I call the range "cold". This is what an RSO would do. Because there is no RSO present - I am the defacto RSO.

After conducting whatever I (and others) needed to do while the range was cold (e.g., hang targets, collect your targets stands to leave, or whatever), I am still in control of the range. I can either pass off control to another person (because I'm packed up and leaving), or maintain control of the range and be the person to call the range HOT. Before I call a range hot, I check with everyone on the line to make sure they are ready for the range to go hot - including having their ear protection on. Only when I'm sure that everyone is safe, will I call the range "hot".

When I'm in control of the range by calling "cold / hot" - I am ultimately responsible for the safety of everyone. Yes, people are responsible for knowing the range rules and regulations and operational procedures, but it is not uncommon for people to not be paying attention. Plenty of times I've been shooting the bull with another shooter while the range is cold and not been paying attention. The person in control of the range has had to walk over to me and my conversation partner and catch our attention and confirm that we were ready to go hot.

So, if I am going to take on the responsibility to call the range "cold / hot", then it's also my responsibility to make sure I get everyone's attention to make sure that they are safe in that particular instance.

This is pretty standard practice for us old-timers. But new shooters often have never learned this range etiquette / safety procol - often because they've never been trained. Even at my own range (which has a 6-hour new member orientation), new shooters still don't follow this safety protocol (i.e., during a cold range they stay at the shooting bench and are manipulating their firearm, or they walk to the tables at the back wall and start manipulating another firearm (loading, unloading, adjusting red-dots, or whatever). Part of my responsibility at my club - when I see stuff like this - is to tactfully explain why what they are doing is a safety concern that was covered in the orientation and codified in the range's operational manual.

Just my opinion and personal practice.

TWYLALTR.

Cheers.

It is standard best practice to get visual and/or audio confirmation from ALL participants BEFORE calling the range "Hot" or "Cold".

Scenario 1:
"Are you ready for the range to go Hot"
"Yes" ***Thumbs up***
"Range Hot"

Scenario 2:
"Are you ready for the range to go 'Hot'"
"No. I have to get my Ear Pro on, I will confirm when ready."
"O.K."

While a newby may be forgiven for being ignorant and may need to be educated on such, there's no justification for a person with lots of experience at a gun range.

Leeroy Jenkins(*) types are a danger to safety and health, and can get people killed.
(*)Look up the pop-culture reference if unfamiliar.

 

[Bobbygun]

There are aspects of my life that are generally more associated with evangelism than shooting. And in those things I am not an evangelist. With shooting, I am.

It is not a requirement for a Christian to be an evangelist. If he is a shooter, he damned well better start being one.

I've got to confess, I'm really not sure what you're saying here.

To clarify my comments, I think someone who needs a 6-hour orientation should attend a beginner's firearms class and get some training that way instead. The orientation I attended was nowhere near 6 hours, but was still tedious. When they got to the part where you couldn't shoot your pistol rapid fire, my eyes rolled back in my head. I decided to continue doing what I was doing before, shooting on BLM or the national forest lands instead. Since then, I've read numerous accounts (many on this forum) of overzealous range officers, which only reinforced my decision.

To be fair, I have been to that club as a guest at their shotgun range a couple of years ago and had a very enjoyable day.

 

[wired]

I've got to confess, I'm really not sure what you're saying here.

To clarify my comments, I think someone who needs a 6-hour orientation should attend a beginner's firearms class and get some training that way instead. The orientation I attended was nowhere near 6 hours, but was still tedious. When they got to the part where you couldn't shoot your pistol rapid fire, my eyes rolled back in my head. I decided to continue doing what I was doing before, shooting on BLM or the national forest lands instead. Since then, I've read numerous accounts (many on this forum) of overzealous range officers, which only reinforced my decision.

To be fair, I have been to that club as a guest at their shotgun range a couple of years ago and had a very enjoyable day.

Yeah I get the feeling that mag dumps would be frowned on and since what I do is work on customers machineguns and build suppressors largely for ...machineguns, I'd feel like I wouldn't get a friendly welcome at a range like that.

I remember going to the Seattle police range and asking if I could test machineguns at their range where I was sternly told Machineguns are illegal in Washington. I responded to the deputy that they were illegal for him not for me. I was asked to leave.

 

[OldBroad44]

I think @wired does seemed a bit pleased with himself. But it seems to me that what he is pleased about is being philosophically consistent as well as having his actions match his philosophy. Neither are easy to do. I think a bit of self satisfaction is warranted.

Wired's society had designated that space for being a shooting range. Not a space for doing nails. And presumably there were rules about using the range. Wired was in the right with respect to going there to shoot and doing so after announcing "Range is hot!"... assuming that only ordinary conventional safety requirements and range rules apply. Wired clearly makes that assumption, and acted accordingly. A perfect meshing of philosophy and action which part of me finds philosophically pleasing.

What would I have done? Well...I try to practice a certain generosity of spirit above and beyond the minimal requirements in most cases. And I think emotionally that's what I would have wanted to do. That is talk with the girls, tell them I would be shooting shortly, and if they didn't have their ears pro on etc. Would I have done so? No, I think I would have done exactly what Wired did, but for different reasons. Because I dont think being nicer would have worked.

I think my approaching the group of young women, being an old woman, would have resulted in a dominance contest. They were there first, they would say, and there were lots of them, so I was outvoted, and they wanted to do their nails and gossip. I, who was just one, should give way to them. The range was not a shooting range at this time they would say

If I instead did exactly what Wired did, and just began firing after the formal official warning, the shooting range would in fact and actuality be a shooting range again, and my, the shooter's turf, with the girls being the obvious interlopers. And they would be uninclined to argue since I would start by emptying my favorite .44mag revolver and my .357 mag edc and would then be working more slowly on my 17 preloaded 9mm mags. Its possible any male would not get the dominance challenge from the girls that I expect I would from a bunch of younger girls who weren't shooters. But these days, who knows?

I'm assuming we're talking about an outdoor range, where a rifle or .44mag going off can cause ears to ring for half an hour but isn't going to break any ear drums.

 

[Stomper]

@Stomper Would tell ya it's cold.....and deep!

 

[Joe13]

You're not supposed to put your hand in the urinal to test the water - this isn't the public pool.

Although there is probably about the same amount of pee percentage in both.

 

[wired]

I think @wired does seemed a bit pleased with himself. But it seems to me that what he is pleased about is being philosophically consistent as well as having his actions match his philosophy. Neither are easy to do. I think a bit of self satisfaction is warranted.

Wired's society had designated that space for being a shooting range. Not a space for doing nails. And presumably there were rules about using the range. Wired was in the right with respect to going there to shoot and doing so after announcing "Range is hot!"... assuming that only ordinary conventional safety requirements and range rules apply. Wired clearly makes that assumption, and acted accordingly. A perfect meshing of philosophy and action which part of me finds philosophically pleasing.

What would I have done? Well...I try to practice a certain generosity of spirit above and beyond the minimal requirements in most cases. And I think emotionally that's what I would have wanted to do. That is talk with the girls, tell them I would be shooting shortly, and if they didn't have their ears pro on etc. Would I have done so? No, I think I would have done exactly what Wired did, but for different reasons. Because I dont think being nicer would have worked.

I think my approaching the group of young women, being an old woman, would have resulted in a dominance contest. They were there first, they would say, and there were lots of them, so I was outvoted, and they wanted to do their nails and gossip. I, who was just one, should give way to them. The range was not a shooting range at this time they would say

If I instead did exactly what Wired did, and just began firing after the formal official warning, the shooting range would in fact and actuality be a shooting range again, and my, the shooter's turf, with the girls being the obvious interlopers. And they would be uninclined to argue since I would start by emptying my favorite .44mag revolver and my .357 mag edc and would then be working more slowly on my 17 preloaded 9mm mags. Its possible any male would not get the dominance challenge from the girls that I expect I would from a bunch of younger girls who weren't shooters. But these days, who knows?

I'm assuming we're talking about an outdoor range, where a rifle or .44mag going off can cause ears to ring for half an hour but isn't going to break any ear drums.

One thing that I didn't mention is that these were all gang types. You mentioned establishing dominance. I can tell you one thing there are few things that establish dominance at a range like machineguns. Odds are though that if you saw the crowd there though you wouldn't have gotten out of your car.

I did work with one of the guys on his shotgun shooting stance later. He almost fell over on his first shot.

 

[Knobgoblin]

One thing that I didn't mention is that these were all gang types. You mentioned establishing dominance. I can tell you one thing there are few things that establish dominance at a range like machineguns. Odds are though that if you saw the crowd there though you wouldn't have gotten out of your car.

I did work with one of the guys on his shotgun shooting stance later. He almost fell over on his first shot.

I already know that them fellas at the range wanted on your mailing list.

 

[wired]

I already know that them fellas at the range wanted on your mailing list.

Yeah normally at the range I hand out at least a dozen business cards. I get customers and offer great deals . I neglected to do that this time.

 

[OldBroad44]

One thing that I didn't mention is that these were all gang types. You mentioned establishing dominance. I can tell you one thing there are few things that establish dominance at a range like machineguns. Odds are though that if you saw the crowd there though you wouldn't have gotten out of your car.

I did work with one of the guys on his shotgun shooting stance later. He almost fell over on his first shot.

Exactly right. If I saw a bunch of gang types at the range I would have just kept driving. Don't like ranges anyway. My idea of a great shooting session is off in the woods somewhere completely alone.

 

[wired]

Exactly right. If I saw a bunch of gang types at the range I would have just kept driving. Don't like ranges anyway. My idea of a great shooting session is off in the woods somewhere completely alone.

The unfortunate thing about where I live , really the ONLY unfortunate thing, is that there is little to no public land. I know private property places I could shoot but theyre well over an hours drive.

I get a kick out of these "you need to go up to the young ladies and discuss proper range etiquette" comments. The less interaction the better. Get in , do your business , get out and dont go in there acting like the Man.

 

[RedRover]

One thing that I didn't mention is that these were all gang types.

Gang types?
How were they carrying themselves to give you that impression?

Did you recognize some identifiable gang tattoos?
Were they flashing gang signs?
Was it the Doo Rag and the fake press-on nails that tipped you off?

From what I gathered from the vid is a guy showing his sister(?), cousin(?) how to shoot.

 

[wired]

Gang types?
How were they carrying themselves to give you that impression?

Did you recognize some identifiable gang tattoos?
Were they flashing gang signs?
Was it the Doo Rag and the fake press-on nails that tipped you off?

From what I gathered from the vid is a guy showing his sister(?), cousin(?) how to shoot.

Haha. Those are guys. The two guys had gang tats and brands. Yes, brands. We had quite a talk from what I could understand they wanted me to build them some guns. I get that a lot so it didn't phase me. The girls were just stereotypes.

Eugene .hahaha

 

[FATAL125]

I can tell you one thing there are few things that establish dominance at a range like machineguns.

dont go in there acting like the Man.

Ummm...

 

[wired]

Ummm...

It has a different connotation here.

 

[FATAL125]

It has a different connotation here.

Okie dokie...

 

[gtivan]

Not that my opinion matters. Cause it is just a opinion.

Responsibility in order....
1. The girls. They are at a shooting range. It is their job to know what is going on and how to act.
2. Who ever brought the girls. Letting them out of their comminucation range in order to make sure they were safe and enjoying the experience is on their head. When I take noobs shooting, it is about them, not me. Even if they are only watching.....
3. Range owners. Were rules written and followed.
4. OP. As long as he did minimum required, he is good.

As for eitquette? That is based on each individuals own interpretation. What is proper behavior for 1 person may be considered abhorent to another. To each his own.

I don't interfere in other peoples business unless specifically asked to by them. Got my posterior handed to me too many times to do different. Usually by the wife.

So chances are I woulda done the same if i was at a range with others.

But hey, I go to BLM for my shooting. If there is someone at my spot i just keep driving til it is just me and the people i bring.

 

[RedRover]

Haha. Those are guys. The two guys had gang tats and brands. Yes, brands. We had quite a talk from what I could understand they wanted me to build them some guns. I get that a lot so it didn't phase me. The girls were just stereotypes.

Brands?

FYI - Fraternity Branding is a part of 'Greek Life' at universities.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLj8wDtA_eQ

 

[wired]

Brands?

FYI - Fraternity Branding is a part of 'Greek Life' at universities.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLj8wDtA_eQ

That wasn't these guys