Ceasing Transfers Effective 11/16/22

[J&B Firearm Sales Inc.]

Alrighty folks, there's no easy way to say this but starting tomorrow we are having to join the ever-growing list of dealers no longer accepting FFL transfers.

We aren't doing this out of any ill intent or to inconvenience our clients, but for the following reasons which I hope will be understandable to the community:

• With multiple other local FFLs ceasing transfers we have seen a massive increase in demand to transfer through us and it is more than we can logistically handle. This is not an exaggeration or hyperbole but today we had over 100 calls/people in the shop asking us if we were still accepting transfers. Every firearm gets locked in a safe at night, and we only have so much room. Additionally spending so much time and resources on transfers is simply not profitable or sustainable for us.
• With the queue times hitting record #s (2.1k for CHL, 12.7 without as of close tonight) we are eventually going to hit a point of no return where people's background checks will not clear in time before 114 goes into effect.

All requests received from 11/15 will be honored of course (HINT - you can still submit them on our website tonight!), however starting tomorrow we will not be sending our FFL to dealers for new transfer requests, and will be reaching out to some of the larger online retailers to let them know we will not be accepting transfers from them.

Tomorrow we will be updating our website and social media to reflect this change.
Thank you very much for your support and understanding during this challenging time.

• James

Read More

 

[titsonritz]

Not so unintended consequences.

 

[freelander]

I love you guys and I respect that you're doing the best you can

 

[washagonian]

I have total respect for your decision.

This is a business decision, made by a business owner in a completely unstable business environment.

Wishing you the best.

 

[Caveman Jim]

So the Initiative passed and it went into effect immediately?

 

[GrayGoose]

So the Initiative passed and it went into effect immediately?

Which is why private party transfers should be done privately, the constitutional way.

 

[washagonian]

So the Initiative passed and it went into effect immediately?

Here's my reading of Section 6 of BM 114 (which amends ORS 166.412)

There is no language that provides for the grandfathering-in of anyone who initiated a purchase and transfer/BGC prior to the law taking effect.

In addition, Section 6 (14), which focuses on private party transfers with an FFL doing the transfer, states:

"Knowingly selling or delivering a firearm to a purchaser or transferee who does not have a valid permit-to-purchase a firearm in violation of subsection 2(d) of this section, or prior to receiving a unique approval number from the department based on the criminal background check in violation of subsection 3(c) of this section, is a Class A misdemeanor."

If I do the math:

• Ballot Measure 114 passes on 11/8/22
• Vote certification is issued on 11/15/22 (one week later - I'm not positive on this exact date)
• BM takes effect 30 days after the "effective date this 2022 ACT" (Section 13). Again, another date that is hard to pin down, BUT if the effective date of an Oregon citizen initiative ballot measure is 30 days after certification, then this would mean that BM114 takes affect on 12/16/22.
• Any applications in the BGC queue as of 12/16/22 will probably continued to be processed, BUT, if the BGC approval is returned AFTER 12/15/22 then EVEN IF the BGC is approved (let's say for example, on 12/20/22), the FFL cannot transfer the firearm to the buyer unless the buyer has the permit to purchase - which the buyer won't have because no process exists to issue a permit.

RESULT - the FFL holding onto a private party transfer firearm is dropped into a sh*tshow:

• Buyer has probably already paid seller
• But buyer cannot receive firearm because buyer doesn't have permit
• What is FFL's responsibility to resolve situation?????
  • No matter what, it will cost the FFL in time and effort, and perhaps legal fees.

That's my take on the situation. There may be some errors in my thinking.

If anyone has better information on the "EFFECTIVE DATE" of a "citizen initiative" ballot measure in Oregon, please chime-in.

I encourage everyone to read the ballot measure.

Take what you like and leave the rest.

Cheers.

 

[washagonian]

Which is why private party transfers should be done privately, the constitutional way.

It is truly a sh*tshow.

 

[rhollister71]

Here's my reading of Section 6 of BM 114 (which amends ORS 166.412)

There is no language that provides for the grandfathering-in of anyone who initiated a purchase and transfer/BGC prior to the law taking effect.

In addition, Section 6 (14), which focuses on private party transfers with an FFL doing the transfer, states:

"Knowingly selling or delivering a firearm to a purchaser or transferee who does not have a valid permit-to-purchase a firearm in violation of subsection 2(d) of this section, or prior to receiving a unique approval number from the department based on the criminal background check in violation of subsection 3(c) of this section, is a Class A misdemeanor."

If I do the math:

• Ballot Measure 114 passes on 11/8/22
• Vote certification is issued on 11/15/22 (one week later - I'm not positive on this exact date)
• BM takes effect 30 days after the "effective date this 2022 ACT" (Section 13). Again, another date that is hard to pin down, BUT if the effective date of an Oregon citizen initiative ballot measure is 30 days after certification, then this would mean that BM114 takes affect on 12/16/22.
• Any applications in the BGC queue as of 12/16/22 will probably continued to be processed, BUT, if the BGC approval is returned AFTER 12/15/22 then EVEN IF the BGC is approved (let's say for example, on 12/20/22), the FFL cannot transfer the firearm to the buyer unless the buyer has the permit to purchase - which the buyer won't have because no process exists to issue a permit.

RESULT - the FFL holding onto a private party transfer firearm is dropped into a sh*tshow:

• Buyer has probably already paid seller
• But buyer cannot receive firearm because buyer doesn't have permit
• What is FFL's responsibility to resolve situation?????
  • No matter what, it will cost the FFL in time and effort, and perhaps legal fees.

That's my take on the situation. There may be some errors in my thinking.

If anyone has better information on the "EFFECTIVE DATE" of a "citizen initiative" ballot measure in Oregon, please chime-in.

I encourage everyone to read the ballot measure.

Take what you like and leave the rest.

Cheers.

If i read the SOS correctly, the vote gets finalized and confirmed 30 days post election day. which i understand is around Dec.7th. Once certified, any new measures will take effect 30 days later. January 6th or so..

 

[washagonian]

If i read the SOS correctly, the vote gets finalized and confirmed 30 days post election day. which i understand is around Dec.7th. Once certified, any new measures will take effect 30 days later. January 6th or so..

@rhollister71

Thanks. It's helpful to get additional information.

2 questions:
1.) What does SOS stand for?
2.) Can you direct me to where you read this information. (I want to figure out exactly what the dates are so I can update my post.)

Thanks.

 

[Sporting Systems]

If we can assist you James, let us know. Bowel Movement 114 is screwing y'all over badly.

 

[rhollister71]

secretary of state oregon.

not sure where i got lost reading in there back in october in run up to election. although others have stated other dates. i read it as nothing in effect until its certified, and every vote counted..

 

[rhollister71]

secretary of state oregon.

not sure where i got lost reading in there back in october in run up to election. although others have stated other dates. i read it as nothing in effect until its certified, and every vote counted..

But have also Read where its the Attorney Generals job to ensure non-constitutional Fed or State Laws make it to the ballot for a vote. so theres that as well! since both have in their constitutions the right to keep and bear arms?

 

[gmerkt]

Dealer is perfectly correct to suspend these operations until the matter is sorted out. Especially considering the part where people are going to get guns stuck in limbo for who knows how long.

 

[Xmark1]

Condolances.

 

[washagonian]

Here's a post from @Bsteinhauer28, (thanks to him) who posted a link to an OSP statement and in that statement OSP says that BM 114 will go into effect on December 8 - which is 30 days after the election.

Update from OSP about 114

Looks like Dec 8th. is the day. https://flashalert.net/id/OSPOre/159191 " Oregon State Police Firearms Instant Check System (FICS) Update- Oregon (Photo) - 11/16/22 The Oregon State Police (OSP) is aware that the public has many questions regarding Ballot Measure 114. The Oregon Secretary...

www.northwestfirearms.com

That is the MOST OFFICIAL thing I've been able to find (thanks to @Bsteinhauer28) about when BM 114 will go into effect.

 

[J&B Firearm Sales Inc.]

Thank you for the support and kind words everyone, this last week has been very trying.

The OSP update today with 114 going into effect on Dec 8th is yet another piece of very bad news.

As of close tonight the CHL queue was up to 2.4k, regular queue at 13.8k.

Unless OSP finds a way to knock out their backlog I am unsure of how many of our pending BGCs (for both our sales and FFL transfers) will clear by then and what that will mean going forward. Once we have some concrete guidance I'll try to post another update.

For everyone who's been coming by the shop, thank you for your patience we're trying to help everyone as quickly as we can.

A side note on the phone line - like a lot of small businesses we only have one phone line. It has been ringing off the hook non-stop for the last week. This means it is nearly impossible to field every call coming in. Even listening to voicemails is nearly impossible - I'll be a few seconds into listening to one then another calls comes in and cuts it out. We're trying to answer as many calls as we can but if you're unable to get a hold of us on the phone because we are on the line or are too busy with customers to answer please email us at [email protected] and we'll reply as soon as we're able to.

 

[arakboss]

Alrighty folks, there's no easy way to say this but starting tomorrow we are having to join the ever-growing list of dealers no longer accepting FFL transfers.

We aren't doing this out of any ill intent or to inconvenience our clients, but for the following reasons which I hope will be understandable to the community:

• With multiple other local FFLs ceasing transfers we have seen a massive increase in demand to transfer through us and it is more than we can logistically handle. This is not an exaggeration or hyperbole but today we had over 100 calls/people in the shop asking us if we were still accepting transfers. Every firearm gets locked in a safe at night, and we only have so much room. Additionally spending so much time and resources on transfers is simply not profitable or sustainable for us.
• With the queue times hitting record #s (2.1k for CHL, 12.7 without as of close tonight) we are eventually going to hit a point of no return where people's background checks will not clear in time before 114 goes into effect.

All requests received from 11/15 will be honored of course (HINT - you can still submit them on our website tonight!), however starting tomorrow we will not be sending our FFL to dealers for new transfer requests, and will be reaching out to some of the larger online retailers to let them know we will not be accepting transfers from them.

Tomorrow we will be updating our website and social media to reflect this change.
Thank you very much for your support and understanding during this challenging time.

• James

When will you start doing or accepting transfers again?

 

[J&B Firearm Sales Inc.]

When will you start doing or accepting transfers again?

Currently I do not have an answer to that question.

If no good news comes from the courts in the next few days starting Thursday we would have no way to release transfers so it wouldn't make sense to accept them.

Even if we do get some good news we could not start accpeting new transfers until other local FFLs did as well or we would be receiving way too many to keep up with. Over the last few weeks we have had days where the shop was so busy and we received so many shipments that often we would be calling out both transfers and shop orders well after we had already closed for the day. I know more than a few customers would show up after receiving a delivery notification only to have to come back later or the next day since their firearm was sitting a long queue of boxes waiting to be processed, I feel bad for them but when we're seeing this high of a volume of sales/transfers we can only knock everything out so quickly.

We will definitely start accepting transfers again at some point - but not until the state has a way for us to release them and we can guarantee that we can process them in a timely and effective manner. We also may have to look at restructuring some of our fees and policies, but only time will tell.

 

[arakboss]

Currently I do not have an answer to that question.

If no good news comes from the courts in the next few days starting Thursday we would have no way to release transfers so it wouldn't make sense to accept them.

Even if we do get some good news we could not start accpeting new transfers until other local FFLs did as well or we would be receiving way too many to keep up with. Over the last few weeks we have had days where the shop was so busy and we received so many shipments that often we would be calling out both transfers and shop orders well after we had already closed for the day. I know more than a few customers would show up after receiving a delivery notification only to have to come back later or the next day since their firearm was sitting a long queue of boxes waiting to be processed, I feel bad for them but when we're seeing this high of a volume of sales/transfers we can only knock everything out so quickly.

We will definitely start accepting transfers again at some point - but not until the state has a way for us to release them and we can guarantee that we can process them in a timely and effective manner. We also may have to look at restructuring some of our fees and policies, but only time will tell.

Do you offer a layaway policy on firearm purchaes? If so what are your terms?