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Discussion in 'Firearm Laws & Legal' started by Theme57, Dec 10, 2017.
Scary how so many blame inanimate objects for irresponsible behavior.
It doesnt surprise me at all. We have a whole bunch of people who call themselves Republicans now who have absolutely no idea what that means.
On the topic of weed and CCW an interesting historical factoid — Richard M. Nixon, who popularized the phrase "War on Drugs", and signed the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 (Pub. L. No. 91-513, 84 Stat. 123) into law, also said:
"I don't know why any individual should have a right to have a revolver in his house," Nixon said in a taped conversation with aides. "The kids usually kill themselves with it and so forth." He asked why "can't we go after handguns, period?"
Nixon went on: "I know the rifle association will be against it, the gun makers will be against it." But "people should not have handguns." He laced his comments with obscenities, as was typical.
A president advocating a total ban on handguns is pretty despicable.
The same people that give you the privilege of have that card will also use it to take away you 2A rights.
He's not the only one. Roosevelt and no doubt many others felt the same way.
It's called setting yourself up to fail. Putting every possible means to fail in front of you will eventually cause you to trip over one of them. It's better to put the odds in your favor. Getting stoned or drunk is being 'personally irresponsible" in itself. It has no benefit to life and only causes problems. But that's getting deep into the philosophical lessons of life and each of us has to suffer the consequences of that. I don't dictate another person's life choices I can only suggest things.
Once a week I drink a 6 pack of beer. It could just as easily be 2-3 puffs off a bong for all the effect it would be. Usually Wednesday or Thursday night depending on if the old lady lets me put my hands on her that day. She wont let me put hands on her if I am even slightly intoxicated . No particular reason thats just her call. If I commit a crime while on that stuff its me committing the crime. I do the time. If I murder someone between my 4th and 5th beer or between a 2nd and 3rd bong hit its ME that is going to jail because I committed a crime. Guns dont pull their own trigger. We don't need more gun regulation because murder is already against the law. We dont need alcohol or ( even less ) marijuana regulation because murder is already against the law.
I understand teetotaling and if you want to live that way thats good for you but not everyone does.
I just think it's awful nice of You to be so damn good & yet still come on here and spend some time with all of us sinners
LOL, I guess it's just the urge to spread the goodness around.............
Marijuana makes people a bit paranoid and overly cautious. If anything, heavily stoned gun owners will be more cautious and more fearful to engage in violent behavior. The same goes for driving. People who are stoned tend to be overly cautious, drive a little too slow, which is why it is fairly uncommon for people who are just stoned (no alcohol, pain pills, etc) to get DUIs.. Look at DUI statistics and see how many of these people were pulled over for simply being too high on weed. Usually, if a person gets a DUI and has weed in their system it is coupled with alcohol and other drugs like opiates and anti-anxiety/happy pills.
You seem to think marijuana smokers are too dangerous to own guns.. Could we not also say the same about alcohol drinkers? What about coffee drinkers? Drinking lots of caffeine, a stimulant can make your hands shaky and increase your levels of paranoia, which could result in problems in any defensive shooting situation. Maybe, since there are so many vices available in our society and we cannot have somebody overlooking and making sure we behave properly, we should just ban guns all together, just to keep things safe? I mean that is what the liberals are advocating, that We The People cannot be trusted with guns, because we may behave improperly.
By the way, I would advocate that marijuana helps reduce anger, violence outbursts, helps with PTSD and in fact, marijuana may actually prevent some gun tragedies that can result from people suffering from mental issues, anger and other type of violent episodes. I am much more worried about hot-headed people who have guns than people who smoke weed and have guns. In fact, if anyone has anger issues or prone to violence I would advocate that they smoke weed (to help with this) if they are gun owners. If you are advocating disarming any group of people, I think people with hot tempers, anger issues should lose their gun rights before people who smoke weed. Also, alcohol is a drug that is abused by many people and has a proven track record of causing problems in relation to firearms. Are you advocating to make alcohol illegal again? Did we not remember what happened in the past when we tried that.
And, daily weed smokers are not highly intoxicated as people develop a tolerance very quickly. You probably would not even recognize one.
As other said though, we have laws and unless you want a full nanny state , where the government watches over us and regulates our every move, we should let adult Americans make their own decisions and bear full responsibility of their actions.
Seriously, I think the Second Amendment is a God given right and guaranteed by our Constitution. That right should not be infringed and the only grounds for removing that right is somebody committed or threatened to commit a violent crime to bring bodily harm to another person. Saying if you smoke this stuff you lose your rights. Well, why not take the side of the antis and say if you are an "Extreme Risk", you lose your rights? The state of Oregon and Washington now can take your 2nd Amendment rights away for simply having somebody report you as being a "threatening person".
Unless they can come up with some hard facts showing the number of homicides and violent gun offenses committed by marijuana smokers than I think denying them their 2nd Amendment rights is an infringement upon our Constitution and unethical. With all the violence committed by alcohol drinkers, we should also extend this to alcohol. After all, who is going to be there to watch over the guy having a bad day and drank a half rack of beer? Since anyone can abuse these freedoms, should we create a governing board that will watch over and regulate how much each person drinks? Is that the society we should live in?
Perhaps, anyone who visits a psychologist should lose their 2nd Amendment rights? After all, that is what the Fascist Gun Grabbers are advocating. Threatening people who don't qualify to be considered Americans with American Rights based on their own set of virtues and rules, rather than the laws specified under our Constitution.
You seem to think marijuana smokers are too dangerous to own guns=Yes
Could we not also say the same about alcohol drinkers?=yes but unlikely to happen
What about coffee drinkers?=extremely unlikely
Are you advocating to make alcohol illegal again?=no because it's impractical
I bet that tribesmen smokes weed.
Is the same impractical reason why we ban alcohol a mirror image to the reasons why making marijuana illegal are impractical? = yes
I think it's odd that You say using marijuana products has no benefit to life--
millions of people would like to argue that You are wrong about that
The use of alcohol or marijuana for anything other than a valid medical reason is really incompatible with firearms and the responsibilities it requires the owner to exhibit. And during that time the "medicine" is being administered the use or possession should be totally avoided. The only debatable question is should we make it "illegal" or make it a personal responsibility. The percentage of violent crimes directly or indirectly connected to alcohol or drug abuse speaks for itself. To think that anyone should be in possession of a firearm while they are high on MJ is not even arguable and I always believed that we shouldn't have given up so quickly on prohibition and that we could have done a better job or compromised somewhere. Alcohol could have been limited to 3.2 and marijuana levels could be regulated and lowered to a point that the mental effects would be minimized and only go after companies that marketed products over those limits. Give people a slight buzz and call it good.
Since you think marijuana smokers (and even alcohol drinkers) shouldn't be allowed to have 2nd AMendment rights, therefore disqualifying them as normal American citizens, I would really feel obliged to ask if you can please provide me with some analytical and non-anecdotal evidence from a reliable source that shows a correlation with gun violence and marijuana usage. As well, I would appreciate some scientific data that can shown a correlation between intoxication with THC (and CBD) and increase in violent crimes with firearms.
I am sure many of the gun grabbers/anti-2A out there would use your statements as more evidence as to why they think this country needs gun control. After all, since we unfortunately live in a free, non-fascist/non-police state type of country, what would stop anybody from behaving badly and doing bad things with guns? Since you think the government needs to control who can possess a firearm, you should have some hard evidence explaining why marijuana smokers should lose their rights. Then again, I have yet to hear what you have to say about people with anger issues. WIll you be around to stop the guy who goes into temper tantrums or anger fits from opening his safe during an fit of rage? Do you also think anyone being treated for PTSD, anger management or any other potentially threatening condition should be barred from firearm ownership? Most of the Anti-Gun liberals believe this and have even tried pushing such legislation.
I'm always open for a discussion and a debate, but simply stating marijuana smokers shouldn't be able to own guns because it is (A) Illegal or (B) it makes people dangerous requires some serious analytical and scienitific backed facts proving these statements. If you don't think marijuana smokers should own guns because it is illegal, then do you also support assault weapon bans, gun restrictions and other types of gun control because it is simply "ILLEGAL"? If you think marijuana truly makes people dangerous, can you please provide some studies proving this. Are marijuana smokers proven to commit more homicides or gun violence than people who consume legal substances or do not smoke marijuana? Leaving all other issues aside (child abuse, PTSD, chronic depression, etc), do you have any reputable evidence that proves that people who consume marijuana to be more violent or unstable with firearms to the degree that they cannot even be trusted to own one? Please don't couple marijuana with "DRUGS", because nobody is advocating to legalize meth, heroin or PCP. We are talking about one substance , marijuana.
Also, how can you say alcohol prohibition is not sensible to enforce, but then think the war on drugs, especially marijuana ( a non-lethal substance), is sensible or practical? How many more millions of dollars of our tax money must we spend on this war you support? How many more people will be thrown into prison, become felons and have their life ruined over this? And, how many more drug cartels do you want to help rise to power , who have so much power and influence that they even are paying off some of our politicians and have influence that spread well beyond their home countries. Is this multi-billion dollar war on drugs really sensible? 100,000s of people are dying, drug gangs, cartels and we have to pay tons of taxes to fund the prisons, police, federal agencies. A good amount of our gun violence in this country is due to our drug war and drug gangs fighting each other. Yet, law-abiding gun owners are blamed for this! Yeah, this drug war sounds very sensible and efficient! The drug war is bad enough, but a war on marijuana (has proven medical qualities, non-lethal with less side effects than alcohol and opiates) is ludicrous!
You can say the same thing about many medications yet we don't try to force people to relinquish their weapons when they have a cold, or take opiates or lots of other things
As a non-pot-head without an iron in this fire (not for moralistic reasons BTW, pot just makes me sort of stuck in my head and isn't all that fun for me personally), it is more than arguable that most of the violent crime related to drugs is a direct result of their prohibition.
Edit: one great thing about legalized pot is the cost savings coupled with revenue increases -- hopefully, the state uses that saved and earned money for good purposes. Any taxpaying citizen should be able to get behind that, especially the people who don't use pot because it means we get a bonus at zero personal expense.
Ive never heard of anyone being involved in a crime after leaving a state marijuana store.
I don't believe a competent doctor would prescribe any medication in a dosage so great it would cause them to be mentally affected.
Without even trying hard I can think of more than a dozen or so medications that fit the bill quite nicely. Opiates, benzos , SSRI's, etc. Drugs that are only legal because we say they are legal.
In any case I'd say you are lumping Marijuana in with drugs such as opiates which often cause their users to commit crimes because of their exorbitant price and high addiction potential and Amphetamines which just turn users into human garbage . People using marijuana just pretty much spend their $20 on a few grams and hang out on the couch . I can't think of any crimes that are endemic to Marijuana users other than trafficking which the state store system is meant to eliminate or curtail to the point where its a non issue..