CCL holder gets the run-around from a cop in Maryland

[tiggers97]

From The Tampa Tribune

"HUDSON – John Filippidis, silver-haired family man, business owner, employer and taxpayer, is also licensed to carry a concealed firearm.
He’d rather he didn’t feel the need, “but things aren’t like they used to be. The break-ins, the burglaries, all the crime. And I carry cash a lot of the time. I’m constantly going to the bank.
“I wanted to be able to defend my family, my household and the ground I’m standing on. But I’m not looking for any trouble.”"

What happens next on his trip up thru Maryland is hard to believe. There's got to be more to this story. Otherwise it sounds like this cop is nuts!

Jackson: Gun owner unarmed, unwelcome in Maryland

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[Dunerunner]

I would file suit in a heart beat!! What was the initial "probable cause" for the stop?

 

[billdeserthills]

I would file suit in a heart beat!! What was the initial "probable cause" for the stop?

I am soo glad this finally happened to someone who can afford to sue the living daylights outta this state & it's employees-
It's just been a matter of time until now!

 

[SOrez]

In my opinion the cop was trolling for a bust. He saw a Florida plate,ran it and and came up with a ccw holder and stopped him for no apparent reason,other than having a ccw and hoping he had a gun.

 

[The Heretic]

Well, I guess this answers the question of whether a LEO knows you have a CWP before he/she stops you.

As I said in the other thread on the subject of whether to tell the LEO that you have a firearm, just because I have a CWP, doesn't mean I am carrying a firearm on me, any more than just because I have a drivers license means I am always driving a car (right now I am piloting a recliner).

Yup - that was one LEO who thought he was going to bag himself an out of state gun owner. And the funny thing was, if the gun owner was just passing through, he was protected by federal law.

Which goes to show you that LEOs often do not know the law, and that the law won't necessarily protect you from getting arrested, thrown in jail, having to appear in court, having to hire a lawyer, and having to take time off from work (possibly losing your job) - and after all that, you probably would still get nothing more than an "oh well" from the court and be sent on your way.

 

[deen_ad]

In my opinion the cop was trolling for a bust. He saw a Florida plate,ran it and and came up with a ccw holder and stopped him for no apparent reason,other than having a ccw and hoping he had a gun.

Why did the CCW show up when run by an out of state check? I know my CPL shows up if run here in WA but it shouldn't show up when run from say OR (although my OR CWP will).


Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
Defender of Freedom Award
NRA Recruiter
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[Riot]

Why did the CCW show up when run by an out of state check? I know my CPL shows up if run here in WA but it shouldn't show up when run from say OR (although my OR CWP will).

Some states tag their CCW/CHL/CHP/CWP with your divers license.

Plates go to the registered owner of the vehicle- there, you can pull up the Registered Owners Driver's License number and run through <broken link removed> (National Crime Information Center) which tags along a check through NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System).

Some states, like Michigan for example, have their own system that tags along with the NCIC/NICS checks. It's called the Law Enforcement Information Network (LEIN) which would include even investigatory stops, charges without convictions and local court orders.

Most police encounters I've had seem aware that I have a CCW before I even talk to them...so I would assume it's in the DOL but I can't verify that.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

What ever happened to "safe passage" while traveling through another state?

 

[mjbskwim]

Why did the CCW show up when run by an out of state check? I know my CPL shows up if run here in WA but it shouldn't show up when run from say OR (although my OR CWP will).


Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
Defender of Freedom Award
NRA Recruiter
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

I'm guessing because the only place a local cop is going to get your info is from your home state.

 

[RicInOR]

Take away is that your spouse needs to know to keep their mouth shut.

"Now he's at the passenger's window. "Your husband owns a gun," he says. "Where is it?"

First Kally says, "I don't know." Retelling it later she says, "And that's all I should have said." Instead, attempting to be helpful, she added, "Maybe in the glove [box]. Maybe in the console. I'm scared of it. I don't want to have anything to do with it. I might shoot right through my foot."

The officer came back to John. "You're a liar. You're lying to me. Your family says you have it. Where is the gun? Tell me where it is and we can resolve this right now.""



Never talk to the police.
"Am I free to go?" "Am I under arrest?"

From the news story, seems like there are 4th Amendment issues with this case. Except that Maryland is 100 miles from the border so, what the entire constitution is suspended in the border regions?




"Safe Passage" = no such thing.
You really don't want to be transporting a beer on an Interstate thru a dry county and get the attention of the police.

How many people have been busted for a felony and then lost their gun and agreed to leave from the NYC Ports law. If you goto a NYC area airport and check in your firearm for travel - as you would at say PDX - you will be arrested. If you are a "good guy" you loose your firearms. Bad - you get the full felony treatment.
So, I gotta ask, what federal protection?
You are traveling thru Washington with an Oregon Concealed carry permit and your pistol, and get the attention of the police. Think they won't care?
Maybe someone can point me at the definitive threads on that topic.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Did he club a critter? didn't click

 

[leadischeap]

Maryland is a peoples republic
The sooner you teach your wife and kids that a cop is there to collect revenue first, talk on cell phone second and make arrests about fourth the better.
Agree with asking if you are free to leave
Other than that, offer nothing.
Shut up and lawyer up if need be
Lie to a cop = get charged
Cop lies to you = standard operating procedure

 

[chariot13]

He would have been safer from the popo in this instance, without ever asking permission from the State to carry a firearm. The cop wouldn't have pulled him over even if he did bring the gun with him. Having the government endorsed identifier caused this interaction.

 

[U201491]

NRA news

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/i...narmed,-unwelcome-in-maryland.aspx?s=&st=&ps=

 

[The Heretic]

What ever happened to "safe passage" while traveling through another state?

Whatever happened to the government respecting our Natural Rights, some of which are recognized by the Constitution?

Right from the beginning government starts off infringing them. That is the nature of government and why we have a judicial branch that is supposed to help protect our rights as the rest of government should - but due to human nature, politicians, bureaucrats, other government officials and anybody else (i.e., most citizens) who wants power and/or money from the government, do whatever they can to get what they want and our rights be damned.

Not too long after the beginning there were sedition laws:

Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which go to the core of the First Amendment - Freedom of Speech and freedom of the press - the acts being used primarily to silence critics of the government. Then as today, the opposing party criticized the act, used it as an issue to get into power, then in turn used it to silence *their* critics.

You would think so soon after the Constitution was ratified, the judicial branch would have struck this down, or there would even have been uprisings, but no - just as now, it was accepted and to this day part of the acts are still in place as law.

"Safe Passage" is still there as law, but like many other laws, it will only serve as a defense in court (if you acted within the law), and only then if you have the money to hire a decent lawyer, and only then if you get a decent judge. The citizen in the news story more or less realized this and wisely chose to not risk any problems, and he and his family were still persecuted - just not as far as if he had chosen to actually have a firearm with them.

If I were them, I would seek to file a lawsuit - but that is costly, and it isn't easy to find a lawyer who would be amenable to file a lawsuit on this issue on speculation of a financial gain - it would be hard to win (there is a principle of immunity on the government's behalf) and even if they did win the damages could very likely be less than the cost. Also, the DOJ, the federal government, etc., would not be inclined to weigh in on his behalf, even though his rights and federal law were violated IMO.

This is the world we live in. It has more or less been this way since the beginning. We are fortunate to live in one of the freer nations of the world, but do not count on the law to protect you. Always bear in mind that people in power or authority (including the vast majority of citizens who put those people in power) are corrupted by that power and you should act accordingly.

 

[The Heretic]

He would have been safer from the popo in this instance, without ever asking permission from the State to carry a firearm. The cop wouldn't have pulled him over even if he did bring the gun with him. Having the government endorsed identifier caused this interaction.

The problem is that if he did what you suggest, the risk, if a firearm was found on him concealed in Florida, would be that there would be much more serious repercussions.

I agree that the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms does not mean that you have to ask the government for permission to bear arms, whether concealed or not.

However, the current state of the law, court precedent, judicial understanding of our rights and the Constitution - all of which are flawed - result in an environment where we risk arrest, fines and imprisonment if we do not abide by the law.

Advising people to not abide by the law is not a solution in most cases.

 

[Riot]

He would have been safer from the popo in this instance, without ever asking permission from the State to carry a firearm. The cop wouldn't have pulled him over even if he did bring the gun with him. Having the government endorsed identifier caused this interaction.

Actually- an anti-gun, overzealous cop in an anti-gun state caused this interaction...I swear, if people would just stop, take a breather and look at this stuff objectively they'd see the bigger issues and try not to nit-pick at this crap. Seriously, sometimes when people have nothing better to do, they see the trees and miss the forest. Just because you're a cop and don't make any stops/arrests that day doesn't mean you're not doing your job. Police don't get paid for what they do, they get paid for what they might have to do. Just beacause a cop didn't get into a shooting/high-speed chase or get to slam some drunkie tard on his head doesn't mean it was an unsuccessful day.

Maybe it's because I'm getting older...maybe it's because I've already gotten into a few scraps...but I try to stay clear of trouble, talk to a lot more people with respect....go out of my way to say "sorry, please, thank you, & excuse me". We've got officers, even here in prison, that talk to criminals like they want to get punched in the face. The kicker is that I'm way more fit than these guys, way more aware of possible attacks and just overall more prepared for violence than they are yet I don't invite it like they do.

If you're in Law Enforcement and you're reading this, head my warnings...just because you didn't make any arrests today or write any tickets doesn't mean you didn't do your job. Sometimes just being in a school zone when the kids are getting out or driving by a high-crime area deterred someone from being a victim and gave the community the peace of mind they needed.

Never forget that it is the public you serve.

[/rant]