Body armor

[PNWPrepper]

I have been wanting to get a plate carrier and body armor for a while, but never felt the rush to get it when I didn't have the money. I want to get some now with the looming possibility of not being able to get it in the future. I have a question for you guys more experienced with body armor. I am debating between steel and ceramic/polyethylene combo. I know the later is more expensive but very effective. And I know that the steel has superb multi round resistance, but can start to have more spalling from the bullets after a few hits. Would placing a Kevlar insert over a steel plate greatly reduce the amount of spall I would get while increasing it's protective capabilities? Or would I be better off just spending more money on the ceramic/polyethylene combo plates?

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[Geardo]

I have been wanting to get a plate carrier and body armor for a while, but never felt the rush to get it when I didn't have the money. I want to get some now with the looming possibility of not being able to get it in the future. I have a question for you guys more experienced with body armor. I am debating between steel and ceramic/polyethylene combo. I know the later is more expensive but very effective. And I know that the steel has superb multi round resistance, but can start to have more spalling from the bullets after a few hits. Would placing a Kevlar insert over a steel plate greatly reduce the amount of spall I would get while increasing it's protective capabilities? Or would I be better off just spending more money on the ceramic/polyethylene combo plates?

I believe the spall travels along the surface of the plate, probably under the anti small coating once it is compromised.

You would need a kevlar "flak vest" tyoe material sealed around the plate to stop spall.

Realisitcally though, if you are taking lots of rifle rounds in the chest you need a new plan!

The advantage of steel to me is long term durability amd shelf life. I train in it, toss it in the back of my truck etc.

Lets be honest here, it is 99% for LARPING anyway and the heavier steel makes shooting a great workout! It is also thinner which makes shouldering the weapon and going prone easier.

 

[UnionMillsNW]

I have experience with both.

Steel Pros:

Inexpensive
Long Shelf Life
Durable
Multi-Hit Protection (I'm really hesitant to put this on here only because it's just not realistic. Nobody is taking eight rounds to the chest)

Cons:

Heavy
Poor Kinetic Energy Transfer (That bullet energy has to go somewhere. In Ceramics it gets dissipated by the fracturing plate, in Steel...that energy goes to the wearer.)

Ceramic Pros:

Good Weight to Protection Ratio
Proven Protection from countless USGI's
They Float! (Depending on your situation this could be a big deal. I've conducted underwater evacuations while wearing ceramics and they didn't weigh me down. They won't make you float, but they won't sink to the bottom either)

Cons:

Bulky
Price (although deals can be found)
They can crack/break (They have to experience a serious drop for this to occur. Think of all the Marines and Soldiers that dive to the ground...they don't need to replace their plates all the time. Just don't drop them on concrete when they're out of the carrier)



So the answer really depends on your individual needs. If this is a SHTF plate...steel is fine, just be sure to purchase the anti-spall build up and either buy Level III+ or Level IV. The common Level III steel plates you see for sale will NOT stop 5.56 M193....which is arguably the most common rifle round in the United States.

If you are in a career field where you expect to clear a room (or fall off a boat) then ceramics are probably the better option.

Placing a Kevlar insert over the plate *may* reduce spalling for your arms (but seriously just purchase the anti-spall coating and you'll be fine) but @Taco_lean is right that the fragments travel along the path of the plate. I run a Kevlar backing because it extends level IIIA protection past my plate and on to my sides (did this in the Marines too). However the extra Kevlar makes the carrier noticeably warmer...not always a good thing when running and gunning.

Most importantly: Don't forget to purchase and train with a med/trauma kit. Over 47,000 Purple Hearts have been awarded to American Service Members in Iraq and Afghanistan....I guarantee 99% of them were wearing some form of armor. It's not a magic shield. It just keeps the vitals protected so you don't die before medical treatment can be administered.

Good luck.

 

[nwslopoke]

As far as spalling, does adding additional lining make a difference?

 

[PNWPrepper]

I believe the spall travels along the surface of the plate, probably under the anti small coating once it is compromised.

You would need a kevlar "flak vest" tyoe material sealed around the plate to stop spall.

Realisitcally though, if you are taking lots of rifle rounds in the chest you need a new plan!

The advantage of steel to me is long term durability amd shelf life. I train in it, toss it in the back of my truck etc.

Lets be honest here, it is 99% for LARPING anyway and the heavier steel makes shooting a great workout! It is also thinner which makes shouldering the weapon and going prone easier.

I would say the biggest things for me are long term storage because I'm not going to be wearing it hardly at all, but when I need it, I want it to be safe still according to their shelf life. I am also nervous about if it falls or I fall while wearing it I want to be confident it works still. And yea if I get shot multiple times to worry about the spall I need a new plan.

 

[Camelfilter]

I would say the biggest things for me are long term storage because I'm not going to be wearing it hardly at all, but when I need it, I want it to be safe still according to their shelf life. I am also nervous about if it falls or I fall while wearing it I want to be confident it works still. And yea if I get shot multiple times to worry about the spall I need a new plan.

Train with it, and routinely, or don't bother getting any.

 

[Jcon268]

In the same boat as you. Looking to figure what I need between the 2 for front and back. If you're running a lot, I'd think ceramic would be better. I weigh about 235 lbs so I would figure that I wouldn't notice much difference in the weight of the plates but if you're running around you will.
FWIW, I've read that the "expiration date" of ceramic plates is a legal protection for the companies who produce the armor (also gives them a reason to sell more) and that if it's just hanging in your closet it should last longer than what's stated.
Definitely get anti-spalling if you're going steel. Shrapnel could shut you down real fast and with as fast as M855 is moving, you'll get shrapnel just a matter of how much.

 

[Camelfilter]

Get AR500, over ceramic IF you are considering buying it for the possibility of wanting it, wearing it & replacements will no longer be available.

Ban.
SHTF, WROL. Etc.

Sure, no one is EXPECTING to survive multiple fire fights, heck even surviving just one, if under the wrong circumstance.

However, I'd wager that use in defense of static positions would likely be more common. Night-watch/overwatch. Checkpoint/ private road block.

As well as walking ("patrolling") your property, neighborhood, area whatever, acting "security" for field/garden/outdoors family work. Where the likely hood of a simple "pot shot" may be higher vs an outrite firefight.

-No replacements available-

JMHO.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Tank armor designers and ammo designers noticed an effect of projectiles hitting the hardened armor, that on the inner face, a slug would break from the steel and travel inward from the sheer impact of the ammunition hitting the steel.. this is a reason that on steel armored vehicles, there are layers of kevlar type and fiberglass fabric laid onto the steel on the inside... a similar effect is seen when jacketed rounds hit the steel body armor,.although usually on the outer face, but large caliber slugs and the like may produce the effect on the inside... a full anti-spall coating around the steel is recommended, however a kevlar plate backer is also helpful. I've wondered if sandwiching the steel between two plate backers would help a little bit...? Or just get kevlar materials and wrap around the steel itself... basically making a steel core plate? I know some companies are doing steel core composite plates now...not sure how effective these new things are.

 

[ma96782]

I'd consider what the POLICE wear under their uniforms. I mean plates are heavy and limit your mobility somewhat.

Then, if I were working in say some sort of "stop and rob". Well, at least I have something vs. nothing. Or, if money gets tight, I could sell it off to someone who does.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Patriot1775]

Retired ARSOF. RMA has a Level IV Hard Armor Plate set (Model #1155) NIJ .06 Certified. $270 a set. I would not trust personally a steel plate with some Linex coating. Linex is NOT ballistic. Rds will still spall or maybe ricochet depending on the angle. I honestly, would not take any chances with a steel plate, and have any spall get into my face or throat. They make Kevlar/Dyneema plate backers you can put in front if you so desire. I own many ESAPI's in Ceramic and Polyethylene over soft armor inserts. That is what I was issued and prefer, weight be damned!

 

[leadcounsel]

I would say the biggest things for me are long term storage because I'm not going to be wearing it hardly at all, but when I need it, I want it to be safe still according to their shelf life. I am also nervous about if it falls or I fall while wearing it I want to be confident it works still. And yea if I get shot multiple times to worry about the spall I need a new plan.

Then get steel. AR500 has great current deals with BOGO level III or 20% off your order.

 

[bgdawgrr]

Best deal smoking IMO are these:

Botach.com | Law Enforcement, Military & Public Safety Gear

We offer the latest & greatest gear at the lowest prices online. Serving those who protect our great country.

www.botach.com

Several Youtube test videos you can check out. Some folks close to me may or may not have acquired some sets. Super light if you run a front plate only, still lighter than a single steel plate running front and back. PLUS, its stand alone level IV.

Put a few rounds in them myself for testing. Stopped 300WM with SMK 190s, 7.62x39, 5.56 55 and 62 green tips, 30-06 black tips. 50BMG went through like butter, but it goes through everything like that.

Back them up with some soft armor and if you need more than that set up.....my best to ya.

For me, steel is thin, but HEAVY. You have the spalling issue, AND most important to me, the new M855A1 rounds make it obsolete. Especially once it gets into circulation.
I do believe steel is the best option to live in the trunk or back of the car for an active shooter/emergency situation. Not sure I'd want to put Ceramic/Poly armor through long term extremes like car interiors.

 

[Geardo]

For me, steel is thin, but HEAVY. You have the spalling issue, AND most important to me, the new M855A1 rounds make it obsolete. Especially once it gets into circulation.

This is a good point. And my biggest worry with steel.

Only saving grace currently is you have to be fairly close for penetration, or using a longer barrel. And if you are getting shot at close range by US military you are bubblegumed either way.

Once it is as common and green tip and a common criminal might be using it, I will have to get ceramic.

 

[Camelfilter]

Best deal smoking IMO are these:

Botach.com | Law Enforcement, Military & Public Safety Gear

We offer the latest & greatest gear at the lowest prices online. Serving those who protect our great country.

www.botach.com

Several Youtube test videos you can check out. Some folks close to me may or may not have acquired some sets. Super light if you run a front plate only, still lighter than a single steel plate running front and back. PLUS, its stand alone level IV.

Put a few rounds in them myself for testing. Stopped 300WM with SMK 190s, 7.62x39, 5.56 55 and 62 green tips, 30-06 black tips. 50BMG went through like butter, but it goes through everything like that.

Back them up with some soft armor and if you need more than that set up.....my best to ya.

For me, steel is thin, but HEAVY. You have the spalling issue, AND most important to me, the new M855A1 rounds make it obsolete. Especially once it gets into circulation.
I do believe steel is the best option to live in the trunk or back of the car for an active shooter/emergency situation. Not sure I'd want to put Ceramic/Poly armor through long term extremes like car interiors.

Just curious on weather the M855A1 has had actual penetration thru standard AR500 level3+ plates, or is it theoretical.

Just a quick google of folks doing there own tests shows no penetration.

Note: I didn't spend too much time looking (slow internet). However if folks do have links of tests showing penetration, please link in, I'd appreciate it & will check them out at work (on my time...).

Thanks!

 

[CamoDeafie]

Just curious on weather the M855A1 has had actual penetration thru standard AR500 level3+ plates, or is it theoretical.

Just a quick google of folks doing there own tests shows no penetration.

Note: I didn't spend too much time looking (slow internet). However if folks do have links of tests showing penetration, please link in, I'd appreciate it & will check them out at work (on my time...).

Thanks!

In theory, Level 3+ ceramics should also be penetrated by m855a1 rounds, to my understanding. If I am wrong, I'd like data/confirmation?

 

[Jmastersjr]

Hey if your in need of Armor I have a set up that is in new condition with absolutely no issues or use and I can work with you on price. I have a USMC KDH defense Plate Carrier with KDH soft armor inserts that offer protection from fragmentation, 9mm sub machine gun rounds, .44 magnum, and lesser threats. If you need rifle protection I have a set of Ceradyne ESAPI Ceramic Silicone Boron Multi-Curve plates that will stop multiple 7.62 APM2 Rounds. I have pics and can answer any questions if interested.

 

[bgdawgrr]

In theory, Level 3+ ceramics should also be penetrated by m855a1 rounds, to my understanding. If I am wrong, I'd like data/confirmation?

From what I've seen, the M855A1 blows a plug out the back of steel plate. Various levels of penetration. Goes through Level III, Level III+ may not have penetration, but "failure" in that it deforms or bullet is caught in the back spalling coat.
Very dependent on barrel length. You might be good with Level III+ vs a 14.5" barrel. Level IV is safe.

Wound channel had a good one, but it was not a virgin plate.

Vs. Russian level IV ceramic plate

 

[CamoDeafie]

From what I've seen, the M855A1 blows a plug out the back of steel plate. Various levels of penetration. Goes through Level III, Level III+ may not have penetration, but "failure" in that it deforms or bullet is caught in the back spalling coat.
Very dependent on barrel length. You might be good with Level III+ vs a 14.5" barrel. Level IV is safe.

Wound channel had a good one, but it was not a virgin plate.

Vs. Russian level IV ceramic plate

Says nothing about ceramic level 3? Again, if following NIJ standards and M855A1 does penetrate NIJ Level 3 steel armor, then it should be the same for ceramic level 3 plates?

 

[bgdawgrr]

Says nothing about ceramic level 3? Again, if following NIJ standards and M855A1 does penetrate NIJ Level 3 steel armor, then it should be the same for ceramic level 3 plates?

Ceramic is some pretty amazing stuff. I'm sure it would stop a couple rounds, but at some point it cracks and is done for. I believe that is why newer armor is a composite with ceramic using stuff like polyethylene, Silicon Carbide, etc.
So it holds together for multi hits.

BTW, Level III+ is not an official rating.
Not a body armor expert by any means, but I did research the subject alot and slept in a Holiday Inn last weekend.