Body armor, Level III or Level IV?

[Stomper]

It depends. If wearing covert, its Level II soft armor. Overt, Level IIIA. Special teams/SWAT guys have Level III and IV stuff.

My overt carrier is 31lbs loaded with all my crap.

Dam.... that's a LOT of 7-11 microwave burritos!

 

[Stomper]

There is a bunch of stuff on there no one else really needs. 4 sets of handcuffs, OC, Taser, radio, etc.

Well... @No_Regerts is kinda into the bondage scene, so..... yeah.

 

[Bushman]

There is a bunch of stuff on there no one else really needs. 4 sets of handcuffs, OC, Taser, radio, etc.

As non LE I wouldn't need cuffs but I'd keep spray at the least. The other two items could come in handy if protecting the neighborhood or house with neighbors or friends...

Most of my friends are ex military from my time with DoD and live in military neighborhoods so not a ton of idiots to go protesting there...

 

[No_Regerts]

Dam.... that's a LOT of 7-11 microwave burritos!

There is a burrito called "The Bomb". Its amazing, but a code brown waiting to happen.

 

[No_Regerts]

As non LE I wouldn't need cuffs but I'd keep spray at the least. The other two items could come in handy if protecting the neighborhood or house with neighbors or friends...

Most of my friends are ex military from my time with DoD and live in military neighborhoods so not a ton of idiots to go protesting there...

I would still carry a few sets of flex cuffs. Those are real light and can be woven cleverly in all sorts of places. Just real big glorified zip ties, but they can come in handy for all sorts of stuff.

 

[Stomper]

There is a burrito called "The Bomb". Its amazing, but a code brown waiting to happen.

You can "run", but you'll just slide!

 

[CamoDeafie]

When Will The New NIJ 0101.07 Body Armor Standard Be Officially Published?

From the documentation that I could find regarding the upcoming NIJ0101.07 standards, it seems that pretty much all the Level 3 polyethylene plates and level 3 AR500 steel would not qualify for the new Rifle standards... as the test velocities for the rifle rounds are higher than the previous standards. At least from my understanding.

Edit. I would still keep the ceramic Level 4 armor, personally. I do run Level 3 Special Threat Rated ICW armor with soft armor on one rig, but am going to acquire another Level 4 plate as soon as possible for a new standalone rig.

 

[Stomper]

When Will The New NIJ 0101.07 Body Armor Standard Be Officially Published?

From the documentation that I could find regarding the upcoming NIJ0101.07 standards, it seems that pretty much all the Level 3 polyethylene plates and level 3 AR500 steel would not qualify for the new Rifle standards... as the test velocities for the rifle rounds are higher than the previous standards. At least from my understanding.

Edit. I would still keep the ceramic Level 4 armor, personally. I do run Level 3 Special Threat Rated ICW armor with soft armor on one rig, but am going to acquire another Level 4 plate as soon as possible for a new standalone rig.

Hey, show 'em your trigger toe!

 

[No_Regerts]

Not as good as the CHAZ/CHOP Police but after all, they are the best Police...hahaha. Funny how they want Police demilitarized but they become militarized to patrol CHOP/CHAZISTAN.

One of the biggest things that overt carriers do, is get weight off your hips. Hip wear and tear is super common in LE. That, and it makes it way easier to take a crap.

 

[Stomper]

One of the biggest things that overt carriers do, is get weight off your hips. Hip wear and tear is super common in LE. That, and it makes it way easier to take a crap.

Humming the tune of... here I sit with elbows on my knees, I give a gently squeeze and out it comes like rotten cheese.








OK.... to far?

 

[Tony617]

Wow I have seen tests of level III and m193 goes right though so I would expect SWAT should be level IV.

 

[Bushman]

One of the biggest things that overt carriers do, is get weight off your hips. Hip wear and tear is super common in LE. That, and it makes it way easier to take a crap.

I'll bet.

I would still carry a few sets of flex cuffs. Those are real light and can be woven cleverly in all sorts of places. Just real big glorified zip ties, but they can come in handy for all sorts of stuff.

I DO keep some in my 5.11 vest with body cam attached to it, a few spare mags, etc. for around the house type disturbances. I'm just not going to go try to take someone into custody by myself unless MAYBE the are cooperative about putting their hands on top of their head, interlacing their fingers, crossing their legs while on their knees, etc. Even then I'm hesitant. They do come in handy for other things, I used to keep them in my bug out kit but dropped it to save weight as I stopped using hose clamps and zip ties to attach gear to my boom stick and started buying proper kit.

 

[Bushman]

Wow I have seen tests of level III and m193 goes right though so I would expect SWAT should be level IV.

A recent test I reviewed showed not all Level 3 is truly equal. The stuff with Dynema is not as good. It's lighter but different manufacturers that used that material had massive failures with 5.56.

 

[Bushman]

When Will The New NIJ 0101.07 Body Armor Standard Be Officially Published?

From the documentation that I could find regarding the upcoming NIJ0101.07 standards, it seems that pretty much all the Level 3 polyethylene plates and level 3 AR500 steel would not qualify for the new Rifle standards... as the test velocities for the rifle rounds are higher than the previous standards. At least from my understanding.

Edit. I would still keep the ceramic Level 4 armor, personally. I do run Level 3 Special Threat Rated ICW armor with soft armor on one rig, but am going to acquire another Level 4 plate as soon as possible for a new standalone rig.

OK, now we're getting somewhere. A vote for Level 4 with good reasons behind it.

Then again I see that NoRegrets is in the potential line of fire 5 days a week and wears substantially less most of the time...

Price point is not an issue for me. The only advantage I thought about for the Level 3 vs 4 was the weight savings of 2.5 lbs. Let me get the Level 3 plates in and see how they do.

I will say the test I saw for MY plates specifically showed them being hit with a 22 " barreled rifle and steel core ammo and holding up to MULTIPLE hits with no penetration. This was not a 14" carbine with Tula ammo testing....they even did drop tests before the shooting. And this was on Level 3 plates....with .308 too....

 

[No_Regerts]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. A vote for Level 4 with good reasons behind it.

Then again I see that NoRegrets is in the potential line of fire 5 days a week and wears substantially less most of the time...

Price point is not an issue for me. The only advantage I thought about for the Level 3 vs 4 was the weight savings of 2.5 lbs. Let me get the Level 3 plates in and see how they do.

I will say the test I saw for MY plates specifically showed them being hit with a 22 " barreled rifle and steel core ammo and holding up to MULTIPLE hits with no penetration. This was not a 14" carbine with Tula ammo testing....they even did drop tests before the shooting. And this was on Level 3 plates....with .308 too....

Its just cuz we're cheap and I hate being uncomfortable.

 

[Bushman]

One of the biggest things that overt carriers do, is get weight off your hips. Hip wear and tear is super common in LE. That, and it makes it way easier to take a crap.

Ya, I had a pistol belt with 6 pistol mags, 2 rifle mags, a flash light, dump pouch and a blade and it was not very comfortable. Decided to ditch it and save the weight and space unless maybe for a quick don at home for a super bad situation that warrants it. Chest rig works better AND I have room for a trauma kit and a couple TQ's, thermal, etc.

 

[Bushman]

Its just cuz we're cheap and I hate being uncomfortable.

I don't know how you guys run after people with all that kit on. They must be slow and out of shape as hell, lol.

But I'm guessing most meth heads and gang bangers are not exactly the Jason Bourne trained type. Probably trip over their sagging pants and catch their fake mall kiosk gold chain on a fence types.

 

[No_Regerts]

I don't know how you guys run after people with all that kit on. They must be slow and out of shape as hell, lol

Its all fun and games til something gives out. Ruptured my achilles last year during a foot pursuit and had to get surgery and a long recovery. Got lots of NWFA time though!

 

[Bushman]

Its all fun and games til something gives out. Ruptured my achilles last year during a foot pursuit and had to get surgery and a long recovery. Got lots of NWFA time though!

When I did exec protection work eons ago, we had a guy in Beverly Hills who was a medically retired deputy. He got kicked in the knee by a suspect...who then sued him...

His favorite phrase when he told stories..."we hooked them up". This guy was built like Arnold too. A bad temper to boot. I can only imagine what the suspect looked like after that kick...

Your story reminds me of this time I was in Tacoma, when I saw a meth head woman (slim, no teeth, pimples all over her face) jogging ever so slowly through traffic. My gf and I stopped the car. Look to the left and there is a cop jogging after her as well, taking his time, it was almost like he was just like, she's going to run out of steam in a minute and I don't want to break a sweat. It was surreal because everyone was moving so slow.

I thought NWFA is all you guys did when you were not busy oppressing the "innocent" hahahah.

 

[UnionMillsNW]

Yeah not exactly comfy. I'm shocked that SWAT would use level 3, I figured it'd always be level 4. But like I was saying, how many people have armor piercing rounds. Many have steel core, but that is stopped by level 3. I've yet to meet anyone that has true armor piercing ammo.

Armor piercing might be a bit of a misnomer.

Generally speaking armor is defeated by speed. The steel core rounds have their purpose but are not effective at piercing armor; where a V-Max 40gr 223 out of a 20" barrel will zip right through a Level III plate.

Even the common M193 has been shown to pass through level III.

With that being said the countless combat studies conducted since WWI have shown that the likelihood of a being hit by small arms fire is greatly impacted by the amount of *time* he is exposing himself to the enemy rifleman.

This is why the infantry teaches the bounding under fire technique with a quick "I'm up, he see's me, I'm down" mantra to find cover.

So body armor can be important. It can also be defeated with enough speed (or the right shot placement). What you'll find far more important when engaging a hostile threat is your ability to move.

So choose the plate with the highest protection that still allows you to run and jump.