Black Powder and the Movie 'The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly'

[XoXSciFiGuy]

Watching the 2003 restored version of the famous movie with Clint Eastwood, Eli Wallach, and Lee Van Cleef, I noticed a few things about the pistols everyone uses in the film. So I watched it a second time to make sure. This is what I discovered:

• Everyone wears cartridge belts, but you can obviously see they are shooting black powder revolvers with loading levers.
• In a very few scenes, someone is shown loading a revolver with cartridges, but hardly ever. These were probably movie props.
• On the other hand, no one is shown pouring powder or seating roundballs.
• Most, if not all of the revolvers, are Colt replicas because there are no top straps on them, like Remingtons have.
• The pistols look to be mostly .36 caliber Colt Navy.
• Some pistol frames look case-hardened.
• In most scenes, there are no percussion caps on the nipples, and no bore butter on the fronts of the cylinders.
• In SOME scenes, you CAN see white/yellow bore butter on the fronts of the cylinders. We will assume they are loaded without roundballs, of course.
• No one is actually shown shooting double-action, although some shots are done by fanning.
• It can be assumed that on the few scenes where bore butter is shown, the pistols were probably loaded with just enough powder to toss a bit of smoke and fire out the barrel, and that was all. The actual sound of the pistols firing in those scenes was probably little more than a pop, with 'boom' added later in sound editing.
• Some pistols were non-working movie props (especially the scene where Eli Wallach comes out of the desert and robs the old man with the gun store), while others are obviously real. Wallach is shown in that scene calling for cartridges and loading them, but the pistol he puts together has the loading lever.
• The next time you watch the movie, look for scenes where the camera is pointing directly at the front of a pistol. On some shots, you can see bore butter.
• Pietta started producing black powder replica pistols in 1964. Uberti in 1959. It's hard to tell which company Sergio Leone used, but looking at the guns used in the film, I'm going to guess Pietta was the main supplier...UNLESS Pietta was NOT producing the Colt Navy in 1967, the year the movie was filmed. Then it would be Uberti.

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[Andy54Hawken]

I do enjoy the movie The Good ,The Bad and the Ugly.
Its been awhile since I have seen it...that should change...

If I remember right...the movie takes place in 1862 or thereabouts....
So no surprise that the Colt 1851 Navy was featured.

The Colt 1851 Navy was extremely popular from its inception to well into the period of cartridge revolvers.
Lightweight , with a good balance and six shots of a .375 round ball or conical bullet , being charged with 18-22 grains of black powder made for a excellent handgun.

As far as Bore Butter being used...maybe.

If one wants to fire "blanks" from a cap and ball revolver...
You will need to charge your revolver with black powder...
Then use a greased felt wad over the top of the powder.
The greased felt wad helps to reduce fouling and will keep the powder sealed , dry and in place.
A smear O' grease on the cylinder face is helpful to prevent a "chainfire" as well.
The grease may indeed be Bore Butter...Crisco , also works well....I use a mixture of bear grease and deer tallow.
Firing a "blank" like this with a 20 grain charge will make a nice boom and smoke from your '51 Navy.

The use of the '51 Navy may be due to the date the movie takes place , or may be due to various European firearms laws.
As noted , brass revolver cartridges are not of the time period for when the movie takes place.
( The few metallic cartridge guns out in this time period , mostly used copper cases )

Why were the brass cartridges used in the movie...?
I'm guessing 'cause they looked cool , were expected to be have been there , as the movie is a "Western" or the film makers didn't know any better or care....

Now...there were paper cartridges available for the cap and ball revolvers , in this time period.
These were much like a hand rolled cigarette....only fill with black powder and a lead bullet , not tobacco...
Andy

 

[jbett98]

I clearly remember the day I saw that movie when it first came out, as my Mom handed me her car keys and told me to take my little brother to the movies.
I had just received my drivers license and he was my first passenger. I was thrilled to have that level of freedom.
Those were the days of the wide cinema-scope screens and that movie really was something to see.

 

[Quirt Evans]

Hardly unique in the movie industry.
Their are several John Wayne movies that are set in the Civil War period, or shortly after, in which he's carrying a Colt SAA and a Winchester 92.

 

[tac]

• Everyone wears cartridge belts, but you can obviously see they are shooting black powder revolvers with loading levers.
• Cartridge belts look waaaay cool'
• In a very few scenes, someone is shown loading a revolver with cartridges, but hardly ever. These were probably movie props.
• There WERE cartridge conversions but NOT in the movie timeframe.
• On the other hand, no one is shown pouring powder or seating roundballs.
• As Andy notes, most people bought ready-made nitrated paper cartridges - or carried multiple guns, like four or five at a time.
• Most, if not all of the revolvers, are Colt replicas because there are no top straps on them, like Remingtons have.
• True.
• The pistols look to be mostly .36 caliber Colt Navy.
• Also true.
• Some pistol frames look case-hardened.
• Some were - however, I'd say that the vast majority or replicas are COLOUR-case hardened to some degree. Again, it looks spiffy.
• In most scenes, there are no percussion caps on the nipples, and no bore butter on the fronts of the cylinders.
• Can't speak for the lack of the vital cap, but 'bore butter' is a very modern invention. Read the label in a Colt pistol case -there is no mention whatsoever of any kind of lube on the front of the chamber.
• In SOME scenes, you CAN see white/yellow bore butter on the fronts of the cylinders. We will assume they are loaded without roundballs, of course.
• Of course - see Andy's comments. Loading with live ammunition to make a movie doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
• No one is actually shown shooting double-action, although some shots are done by fanning.
• The Colt revolvers were NOT capable of double-action shooting - that's why 'fanning' was popular. They are strictly single-action only.
• It can be assumed that on the few scenes where bore butter is shown, the pistols were probably loaded with just enough powder to toss a bit of smoke and fire out the barrel, and that was all. The actual sound of the pistols firing in those scenes was probably little more than a pop, with 'boom' added later in sound editing.
• Probably.
• Some pistols were non-working movie props (especially the scene where Eli Wallach comes out of the desert and robs the old man with the gun store), while others are obviously real. Wallach is shown in that scene calling for cartridges and loading them, but the pistol he puts together has the loading lever.
• So it does. Artistic license.......
• The next time you watch the movie, look for scenes where the camera is pointing directly at the front of a pistol. On some shots, you can see bore butter.
• Please stop calling it 'bore-butter' which is a proprietary trade-name - call it grease.
• Pietta started producing black powder replica pistols in 1964. Uberti in 1959. It's hard to tell which company Sergio Leone used, but looking at the guns used in the film, I'm going to guess Pietta was the main supplier...UNLESS Pietta was NOT producing the Colt Navy in 1967, the year the movie was filmed. Then it would be Uberti.
• There was also Armi San Marco around at that time.

@Andy54Hawken - not sure what you mean about European firearms laws and the use of the '51 Navy revolver. Explication, please.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

@Andy - not sure what you mean about European firearms laws and the use of the '51 Navy revolver. Explication, please.

I am not "hip" to many European firearm laws in regards to ownership , use etc...

So I was thinking that since the movie used replica Colt cap and ball revolvers , they may not have been subject to various firearm laws or regulations , like they might have been , if they used a "modern" firearm.

Kinda like here in the States where in many cases , black powder firearms are not subject to the same laws and regulations as modern firearms.
Again , just a guess and also again...I am unfamiliar with Italian , Spanish Or Mexican* firearm laws.
Which is why I used the phrase ..."may be due to various European firearm laws." in my post
Notice the word "may".

No slight was meant in my comment.
Andy
* Edit to add :
Filming locations of the movie were Italy , Spain and Mexico.
Firearms law and regulation may vary between these countries.
And yes I know that Mexico isn't a European country...Just now looked up filming locations for the movie ,and saw that Mexico was listed.

 

[tac]

I am not "hip" to many European firearm laws in regards to ownership , use etc...

So I was thinking that since the movie used replica Colt cap and ball revolvers , they may not have been subject to various firearm laws or regulations , like they might have been , if they used a "modern" firearm.

Kinda like here in the States where in many cases , black powder firearms are not subject to the same laws and regulations as modern firearms.
Again , just a guess and also again...I am unfamiliar with Italian , Spanish Or Mexican* firearm laws.
Which is why I used the phrase ..."may be due to various European firearm laws." in my post
Notice the word "may".

No slight was meant in my comment.
Andy
* Edit to add :
Filming locations of the movie were Italy , Spain and Mexico.
Firearms law and regulation may vary between these countries.
And yes I know that Mexico isn't a European country...Just now looked up filming locations for the movie ,and saw that Mexico was listed.

Except for a couple of countries here in Europe, where single-shot muzzleloader LONG ARMS are freely permitted to the over-18s, providing that they are also members of a gun club, ALL replicas are treated like any other modern firearm. You CAN have an antique, but you can't shoot it without a firearms possession authority in your country of origin/dwelling, and, of course, compulsory club membership.

Mexico? who knows?

 

[HB of CJ]

Some movies try to get the firearms correct. Most fail due to any number of good reasons that make sense at the time. Clint did use a bunch of preloaded cap and ball cylinders hanging on his gunbelt. The movie lore was that it did not take that many outtakes for Clint to "speed load" his cap and ball revolver with a new preloaded cylinder.

High Plains Drifter?

 

[CountryGent]

Oh, there are inaccuracies galore in that picture. Still ranks in my top five all time favorite westerns.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Hey!!! They're movies!! I'm assuming that everyone has seen Star Wars. Anyone have any criticisms concerning the props in the films? Personally, I watch movies for content and characters as well as the story line. Please don't get me started on Vietnam era films!!

 

[oldcorpgunny]

I am not "hip" to many European firearm laws in regards to ownership , use etc...

So I was thinking that since the movie used replica Colt cap and ball revolvers , they may not have been subject to various firearm laws or regulations , like they might have been , if they used a "modern" firearm.

Kinda like here in the States where in many cases , black powder firearms are not subject to the same laws and regulations as modern firearms.
Again , just a guess and also again...I am unfamiliar with Italian , Spanish Or Mexican* firearm laws.
Which is why I used the phrase ..."may be due to various European firearm laws." in my post
Notice the word "may".

No slight was meant in my comment.
Andy
* Edit to add :
Filming locations of the movie were Italy , Spain and Mexico.
Firearms law and regulation may vary between these countries.
And yes I know that Mexico isn't a European country...Just now looked up filming locations for the movie ,and saw that Mexico was listed.

I was an "extra" in the film and received an on screen credit as, "dead Mexican #4 rotting in the desert."

 

[Ura-Ki]

One of my favorite John Wayne "Westerns" shows a prodigious number of dudes fanning Remington 1858''s and looking closely, you can make out the drilled cross safety pins in the cylinders to prevent the seating of projectiles! There are also a few Dragoons so equipped, but the Remmy's seem to be the Sexy starlets of this movie! Hollyweird didn't really take the time, effort, or even care to get the details right, which may be because replicas of "Correct" firearms is expensive, difficult, or restricted, and the accouterments that often went along with that were also highly personal choices of each individual!

Another great film ( Cross Fire Trail) went to great effort to show historically accurate firearms, loading, shooting, and care and the personal gear of each star! Its a film that might not have been seen by that many, but none the less, a great one!

 

[tac]

I'm told that the Sterling submachine gun, beloved of the UK Armed forces and most of the commonwealth, was based closely on the Star Wars Stormtroopers'
weapons.

Top - Star Wars troopers' issue E-11 blaster.

Bottom Sterling SMG, British-designed - allegedly by Mr Patchett.......

 

[oldcorpgunny]

The greatest assault to the imagination was the TV series Roy Rogers. His "sidekick" Pat Brady, drove Nellibell, a WWII era Jeep! While everyone else rode horses and carried single action revolvers. Then there was his real life wife, Dale Evans, that appeared in the series as his girlfriend? friend? or what? It was all very confusing to a young boy.

 

[ma96782]

"The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly".......wasn't suppose to be a historically accurate depiction of the era. Rrrright.... As you've already pointed out the many errors with firearms in the film.

So, consider it as.....ENTERTAINMENT.

It happens with tons of movies.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Andy]

• Everyone wears cartridge belts, but you can obviously see they are shooting black powder revolvers with loading levers.
• Cartridge belts look waaaay cool'
• In a very few scenes, someone is shown loading a revolver with cartridges, but hardly ever. These were probably movie props.
• There WERE cartridge conversions but NOT in the movie timeframe.
• On the other hand, no one is shown pouring powder or seating roundballs.
• As Andy notes, most people bought ready-made nitrated paper cartridges - or carried multiple guns, like four or five at a time.
• Most, if not all of the revolvers, are Colt replicas because there are no top straps on them, like Remingtons have.
• True.
• The pistols look to be mostly .36 caliber Colt Navy.
• Also true.
• Some pistol frames look case-hardened.
• Some were - however, I'd say that the vast majority or replicas are COLOUR-case hardened to some degree. Again, it looks spiffy.
• In most scenes, there are no percussion caps on the nipples, and no bore butter on the fronts of the cylinders.
• Can't speak for the lack of the vital cap, but 'bore butter' is a very modern invention. Read the label in a Colt pistol case -there is no mention whatsoever of any kind of lube on the front of the chamber.
• In SOME scenes, you CAN see white/yellow bore butter on the fronts of the cylinders. We will assume they are loaded without roundballs, of course.
• Of course - see Andy's comments. Loading with live ammunition to make a movie doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
• No one is actually shown shooting double-action, although some shots are done by fanning.
• The Colt revolvers were NOT capable of double-action shooting - that's why 'fanning' was popular. They are strictly single-action only.
• It can be assumed that on the few scenes where bore butter is shown, the pistols were probably loaded with just enough powder to toss a bit of smoke and fire out the barrel, and that was all. The actual sound of the pistols firing in those scenes was probably little more than a pop, with 'boom' added later in sound editing.
• Probably.
• Some pistols were non-working movie props (especially the scene where Eli Wallach comes out of the desert and robs the old man with the gun store), while others are obviously real. Wallach is shown in that scene calling for cartridges and loading them, but the pistol he puts together has the loading lever.
• So it does. Artistic license.......
• The next time you watch the movie, look for scenes where the camera is pointing directly at the front of a pistol. On some shots, you can see bore butter.
• Please stop calling it 'bore-butter' which is a proprietary trade-name - call it grease.
• Pietta started producing black powder replica pistols in 1964. Uberti in 1959. It's hard to tell which company Sergio Leone used, but looking at the guns used in the film, I'm going to guess Pietta was the main supplier...UNLESS Pietta was NOT producing the Colt Navy in 1967, the year the movie was filmed. Then it would be Uberti.
• There was also Armi San Marco around at that time.

@Andy - not sure what you mean about European firearms laws and the use of the '51 Navy revolver. Explication, please.

Um... I'm Andy. Please use the full name (Andy54Hawkin) in the future, otherwise I get notifications that you linked to me. THANKS!

 

[tac]

Um... I'm Andy. Please use the full name (Andy54Hawkin) in the future, otherwise I get notifications that you linked to me. THANKS!

x 10.

 

[DunRanull]

Some movies try to get the firearms correct. Most fail due to any number of good reasons that make sense at the time. Clint did use a bunch of preloaded cap and ball cylinders hanging on his gunbelt. The movie lore was that it did not take that many outtakes for Clint to "speed load" his cap and ball revolver with a new preloaded cylinder.

High Plains Drifter?

It was common, especially among Confederate Border Ruffians to carry several pistols and multiple extra cylinders for "quick" reloads. The Remingtons were preferred because they were quicker and simpler to reload with a new cylinder. Swapping out a Colt cylinder on horseback must have been a learned skill.
And face it, most of us like to watch movies and pick out the BS in the weapon scenes... it's part of the fun I think...

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

I watch for correct guns to the time period. There are few pre 60's movies that use what appear to be origional guns that are today worth a fortune. I have seen a couple of Henry's and I think one Walker over the years. The ones that get me are the Trapdoor Springfield's that are supposed to be muzzle loaders although a lot of people wouldn't know the difference. Lately it seems that most movies and series are trying harder to get the firearms correct for the time period. Not 100% but better than a lot of older movies set in pre Civil War period using Colt SAA's and pre 1892 using Winchester 1892's.

 

[XoXSciFiGuy]

My favorite line from the movie is from Eli Wallach:

"When you have to shoot...SHOOT...don't talk..."