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Beware the loss of the 2nd and possibley the whole Constitution.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by U201491, Apr 3, 2015.

  1. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Correction / typo "possibly" in he title.

    Attention All Oath Keepers!

    Why the Article V Convention Must Be Opposed

    by Jay Stang, Texas Oath Keepers Executive Vice-President and member of our Board of Directors

    Fellow Oath Keepers,

    The Constitution provides us several avenues to amend, or change it. The avenue most Americans are familiar with is the amendment. The least known, until now, is the convention, also identified in Article V.

    The convention, known in this day as the Convention of the States (CoS), would be convened for the purpose of proposing amendments. Is there anything else that could happen? I can't say for sure, but consider this: if the US Government had any chance of ridding itself of the chains that Jefferson prescribed, do you think it would take the chance? Any way to rid itself formally of the Bill of Rights?

    Who would be sent to this Convention?

    Remember, if the Article V machinery is sent into motion, think about who will control it? Our current federal government? How many times have you been frustrated with the failure of congressional leadership in both houses to uphold their oaths, or to put our interests first?

    Guess what? They'll be forming and planning the convention. Uh oh. There are several pieces of state legislation in the Texas Legislature right now to specify delegates, how they are selected, their qualifications, etc. That sounds great on paper, doesn't it? Will the delegates faithfully execute the charter given them by the various state legislatures around the country? What did the delegates to the last convention do? Here is the exhausting detail in which the convention is described.

    Article V:

    "The Congress...shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;..."

    That's it. That's all the Constitution says regarding the convention. It doesn't say what they are allowed to talk about, or not allowed to talk about. Congress doesn't get any guidance on how to run it.

    What if they throw out the whole Constitution? Is it possible? Do you trust John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and President Obama?

    Why do we need a CoS? To pass a balanced budget amendment? Would that solve our problems? One more law, one more amendment? Does the federal government follow the Constitution now? If not, why not?

    Friends, the Constitution was created for a moral and religious people. It is unsuited for the governing of any other. Why? Moral and religious people govern themselves. They don't need an all powerful government to do it for them. With no integrity or ethics, the Constitution is merely an eloquent collection of words on paper. It has no magic power. No soul. The Constitution is only as good as the people who follow it. It is not the laws on the books that matter; it is the law in our hearts that matters. If we can not govern ourselves, someone else will. Nature abhors a vacuum.

    Please ponder these questions as you decide whether to support or oppose the Convention of the States.

    Just remember this: when people tell you not to worry, that's when you should start.

    Jay Stang

    -end-

    This article is online at Oath Keepers' national website:

    http://oathkeepers.org/oktester/why-the-article-v-convention-must-be-opposed/
     
    Brutus57 likes this.
  2. Baggerman

    Baggerman Corvallis, Oregon Active Member

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    As I understand it the purpose of article V is to BYPASS the congress. It takes 2/3 of the states to call for an article V convention and to pass any amendment it would take 3/4 of the states to be in agreement (38 would have to agree). Do you think the house or senate would vote for term limits on themselves? You asked "Do you trust John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and President Obama?" The answer is an absolute HELL NO which is another reason for bypassing them and giving the power BACK to the people. Are you aware that originally the senators were elected by the STATE legislators and were accountable to the same? Today they are elected by popular vote and are accountable to no one. Please spend some time to learn this is truly our only option short of an armed revolt we have for changing things. I for one support a convention of the states.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2015
    Martini_Up likes this.
  3. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of Rhetoric, but the one thing I see is a huge threat and the potential of us losing it all without a shot being fired. I will stand by the Oathkeeper's opinion. Leave the Constitution alone and intact and be ready to fight to defend it at any and all cost.
    Any threat to our Constitution is a threat to America and an act of war.
     
    Caveman Jim and Gator Monroe like this.
  4. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The Constitution provides for a way for it to be legally amended... the 2nd Amendment was one of those amendments. There have been several conventions, and many amendments. Are you implying that following the guides of the constitution is "a threat to America and an act of war?"
     
  5. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Southern Cascades Well-Known Member

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    The Far Left & Left will make the masses think the Right (There is no far right anymore) is hitting the Reset Button (When in fact its the Far Left & Left doing it)
     
    U201491 likes this.
  6. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I like your use of "Rhetoric" (capitalization included).... that's what the entirety of your first post is. It's like, literally, the definition of the word... but you throw it out at someone else.
     
  7. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Far too many people still to this day do not understand what the 2nd Amendment is there for and why it was put in place in our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
    This is part of what it protects. It is not just so people can hunt, or defend themselves, it is so we can all defend the Constitution against tyrants and wannabe tyrants and just bad government that over steps and walks on the people.

    http://oathkeepers.org/oktester/john-quincy-adams-the-jubilee-of-the-constitution-1839/
     
  8. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    (it was put there with an amendment)
     
  9. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if you have a guilty conscience or what the problem is. The term Rhetoric applies to what all aree saying about this convention from many directions. Rhetoric is speech and words. There is a lot of those flying around and much of it meant to distort the direction and use of the convention. In truth it can be a bery destructive and even a final blow to our freedom.

    And in fact:
    rhet•o•ric (rĕtˈər-ĭk)


    • n.
      The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively.
    • n.
      A treatise or book discussing this art.
    • n.
      Skill in using language effectively and persuasively.

    • And it is used for good and bad. So what is your issue ?
     
  10. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Well my opinion still stands from my point of view. You are entitled to yours, but it can be a damned sharp double edged sword and with the current people in power it will draw more blood from those that want to keep the Constitution. That cannot be allowed if we are to keep our Nation as it was intended by those who
    founded it, and will tear it from its roots.
     
  11. Baggerman

    Baggerman Corvallis, Oregon Active Member

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    You are correct that the 2nd amendment was to give citizens the right to stand against a tyrannical government, the same reason article V is in there. A way for citizens to change things when the politicians are no longer listening. Instead of blindly following what someone says be it the oath keepers, NRA, best friend or politician READ AND LEARN WHY article V is in the constitution. LEARN how the constitution has been changed many times by those in Washington DC. IF there is a threat to do away with the 2nd amendment it is from those who are already in Washington and no longer listen to the voice of the people. You can bet your bottom dollar that they will ONLY vote for their own self serving interests, article V gives us a way to remove them from the decision making process.
     
  12. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    It also opens a door to doing away with the Constitution.
     
  13. Baggerman

    Baggerman Corvallis, Oregon Active Member

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    Not unless 3/4 of the STATES vote for it. There is a better chance that the bubblegums we have in there now would do that.
    Article V

    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.
     
  14. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Again before you decide to support it or not support it, Take the time to read this page.

    All have free will to do as they choose. But the question is for how long.

    http://oathkeepers.org/oktester/why-the-article-v-convention-must-be-opposed/

    An additional note. How many believed that Oregon would end up with a super Majority in the State house and Senate.....................................................Guess what.
     
  15. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    No, you left out the use you were using, the one most commonly used on Fox News, and the one you know I'm referencing....

    "language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content."
     
  16. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Why are you so concerned with sticking to what some 200-year dead guys wanted? What do you owe them? Thanks for independence from George, but I think the debt is paid by now. We can make our own choices about how we govern ourselves, within the bounds of the constitution we all still abide by (or are supposed to, at least). I understand you're concerned that we will do stupid things with it, but I we can't abandon the system to save the system - your logic isn't workout out, on that.
     
    JRuby likes this.
  17. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    And I think if you were to go back and talk to those old dead guys, they'd tell you - we made the system to be adaptable to your unforeseeable future needs.. that's why we built a way to legally change it. So change away! Make it yours! Make it work for your needs, in your times, for your people!

    Why would they make it changeable, and by multiple avenues, if they didn't think it would ever need changing? It was changed a dozen times or more in their own lifetimes.
     
  18. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I think some you boys confuse politics with religion sometimes.

    Bible - can't change.
    US Constitution - totally can change that.
     
  19. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    So then you abandon the Constitution............??
    That is pretty much what you stated.
    That explains much................

    I have stated my piece here. No need to carry it further. Others feel free to continue. I am finished with this one.
    Freedom was given to all us, yet so many will throw it away and deceive you.
     
  20. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I said make it what you need it to be, within the law. As you know.