Bad news for NWFA member

[gunfreak]

You guys who mentioned having met him may end up being interviewed by LE, who knows. And if there's a wrongful death action against his estate (and against anyone who sold him a firearm), the plaintiff's lawyers maybe conducting discovery.

KPIC said he obtained all his firearms legally.

 

[The Heretic]

The anti-gunners will use whatever they can - don't think that they won't or can't.

One of the lessons over the years I have learned is that other people don't think the way I think. If you want to know what other people will think or do, think what you would do, then assume they think the opposite.

Works for me - most of the time anyway, and when I am wrong I am pleasantly surprised.

 

[The Heretic]

KPIC said he obtained all his firearms legally.

And you trust the media to be accurate and truthful?

 

[IronMonster]

(Etrain16)

I understand you position, and that is a rational, adult and responsible stance. My concern is that few in the sensationalizing gun hating media are any of those things. We as the firearms community have always stood proudly and said "Your laws would do nothing! We as a group are law abiding, wholesome and stable! There is no reason to take guns from the law abiding! Its the criminals! The mentally ill! Its not us!" Well here is there response. This guy had no criminal record, no history of mental illness and was a guy we welcomed into our flock, yet he took one of the dreaded "assault" rifles and went on a rampage. This is the response that every gun grabber wants. Now he can say "See! We need to take guns away from everyone!" They could name the next gun grabbing legislation after his victim because it was his actions that prompted its creation.

I don't think the site has any liability, now could they know? I still anything that could be done to not allow his history to be used for nefarious ends is prudent.

It seems to me to be awful close to worst case scenario, the only thing that would have been worse is if his body count was higher.

Maybe the guy had a brain tumor, maybe he had a mental break down, maybe he was always mental and finally lost control. What ever the case is/was he was never really one of "us" if he could do what he did.



It scares the ba-jesus outta me.

 

[gunfreak]

And you trust the media to be accurate and truthful?

I know they lie about "assault weapons" but to here them say obtained legally makes me chuckle at them.

 

[Certaindeaf]

A person on the internet, including someone on this forum, can be anybody - so be careful out there.

Jeez, no kidding.. he woulda been the wrong guy to "go shooting with".. you'd probably not come back.

 

[Joe13]

I wouldn't give this guy any more attention then any other nut job.

It just encourages the others...

 

[The Heretic]

Jeez, no kidding.. he woulda been the wrong guy to "go shooting with".. you'd probably not come back.

It is hard to know what is anybody's mind.

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!"

I worked with a guy, liked him, smart, good engineer (better than I was), competent, always seemed upbeat.

Found out later, after he left the company, he went through a messy divorce - lost all custody and visitation rights to his only child - committed suicide.

------

Obviously, background checks wouldn't/didn't help here. This guy on the coast had no records/etc. that would have turned up in a BGC.

Obviously he was mentally ill.

I can understand someone who may wish to end their own life - I have always held that is their right; if you don't own your own life, what do you own in this world??

But I strongly assert that a person has no right to harm innocents, and his thinking that there was nothing preventing him from going ahead and killing people because there were no repercussions (beyond the impact on his parents) since he planned suicide anyway, is just sociopathic behavior IMO.

So yeah, mentally ill. I've known some people like that - i.e., all they think about is themselves - they couldn't care less about anybody else, not in the least.

I know one family, unfortunately all too well, where a father is in prison for the rest of his life for molesting his daughter, the grandfather (also a child molestor) is dead (fortunately) and the daughter (sister of the guy in prison, daughter of the grandfather) is still out there getting into trouble (fortunately she mostly gets just herself into trouble and doesn't intentionally directly harm others, just harms them by neglect and/or selfishness (fortunately she is no longer directly responsible for their welfare - even her pets have been removed from the environment).

 

[The Heretic]

I wouldn't give this guy any more attention then any other nut job.

It just encourages the others...

That is the problem.

The media makes a big deal out of it, and then other crazies think this is the way to go out - in a blaze of glory/infamy. It is all about them, not others.

Fortunately this doesn't seem to have made national or even regional headlines, it seems to be fairly isolated exposure. Probably because only two people were killed.

Just the same, I would encourage the site owner to purge this guy's postings/threads, and this thread too.

 

[156256Hunter]

I had sent him a text in the days following the crime asking him if he had any reloading dies for sale just to see if he would respond because I had a feeling it was him. I'm not afraid of being red flagged though, my cousin is a Sergeant for Douglas County Sheriff so I'm good.

And I guess if LE or a plaintiff's attorney really wanted to, they could just subpoena the NWFA records (including ISP addresses) relating to info on people who've interacted with the guy.

 

[Garg]

Is there any chance Law Enforcement would consider the deleting of his profile and this thread as hindering an investigation?

I would say yes. Or it is certainly possible. People who knew or had dealings with him should expect to get some kind of contact, as with any other homicide investigation. Maybe, maybe not. Depends on if they are already satisfied they have enough info or not. Maybe one of our LEO members could chime in here.
Plus, I am sure that there are LEO on this site who are already aware of this, and this thread.

As to purging his account, or posts, I am pretty sure that horse has left the barn. That ship has sailed, which ever you prefer.

I am not really sure what triggers this kind of behavior, but in this case it appears he needed a push, a commitment to finish himself, so he committed the murders to resolve himself to his end. Sad.

 

[The Heretic]

I took a look at his posts on NWFA and they are mostly about selling guns - at least the recent posts over the last couple of years.

Since there is no stated investigation into his selling of firearms and I don't think those posts are related to his criminal actions. So unless some official specifically inquires about his membership here, I doubt it could be viewed as hindering an investigation.

Besides, it should be possible to render his posts such that they cannot be viewed, possibly even so that it isn't apparent they were even here, without actually deleting them. In essence, hiding them. Possible, but maybe not practical - depends on the forum software. I know deleting an account is possible - what the result visibly of that would depend on the software.

The only real problem, unless the forum software was really good, would be that any of his posts that were quoted would probably still be present in the quotes.

His posts on NWFA by themselves, if his most recent posts are an indicator of all of his posts here, are probably benign. However, I googled, and as mentioned, it seems he was a member of a white supremacist site too. So if someone wanted too, they could make some kind of linkage between NWFA and that site - at least mentioned it - guilt by association. Not something we want either.

Probably the most damning posts were the first one in this thread - they include the links to the news articles (although the links seem to be broken now - which is a good thing). The reason I assert this is because anyone searching for those links may find them linked here.

So at the least, I recommend the OP delete those links, as they are broken, serve us no purpose, and may be used against the NWFA community. I would go further and delete this whole thread. The rest is up to the site owner, but if it were me I would go ahead and look into what could be done to preclude any googling of his user name from coming here.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

He has not been on here since June 22nd. His ads are still up on outdoorstrader and armslist with a number listed but I do not want to try calling and get his mother at this time.

For those that are questioning if it actually is him, yes it is. One of his previous ads has a link to his photo bucket account that has pics of his Pacer (the car in the reports) and his ads on the other sites list the 44mag and the rifle used in the report.

That is crazy.

I was kind of shocked when I read all of this. I even sent CBC a private message to see if perhaps it wasnt him.. But with all the evidence stacking up.. I guess it really was.

Very sad.

 

[DieselScout]

I really don't know what everyone is worried about. Frankly if someone wanted to drag this site through the mud this incident isn't what they would need to do it. The member is question didn't discuss what he was doing he, this thread is evidence that we as a community in no way supported him or his actions and there are plenty of post here which could be deemed racist and even antisemitic from members who in the past were very active, but have since found other avenues to spout their drivel. Stop freaking out, talk of hiding and deletion is more damming then the actual material as it implies guilt when we have nothing to be guilty of.

 

[gunfreak]

Is it wrong to wish that he would have gifted some of us his guns instead of having them all with him. He had a nice PTR .308 and the 44mag he did himself with were nice.

 

[erudne]

I'm sure the SPLC will be on this like stink but they troll all their targeted sites already. Having read one of their 'reports' on various non-violent sites where they quoted members that were later banned for provocative posts I have to say that only Fellow Travelers would give them any credence. Having said that.....



America is no longer what it was 10 years ago

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

I just did the same. Jesus, I'm in utter disbelief right now. I saw his name on a white supremacy site and a user on there said he was the kind of person to do this.

Yeah I saw a post he made on stormfront, the white supremacy site. Kinda made me laugh. CBC was saying how he "had relations" with certain ethnic types etc. The Neo Nazi didn't like that that much, questioned why he (CBC) was even on their site anyway! CBC seemed mixed up for sure.

BTW I only stumbled upon that racist site twice! Once when I was researching a Mini-14 purchase and now when I googled CBC.! So if the NSA is monitoring this, stick it. I've got a little Indian blood in me anyway so they probably hate me too!

 

[IronMonster]

I hope I am overreacting. Maybe since it has not been big national ongoing news its mostly already blown over and no one will come looking.

And its not the facts that worry me. IF you could count on the facts being reported in a objective way no one would have anything to worry about. Its the fact that I have seen first hand how things get twisted and mangled to push an agenda The truth almost always is different that the picture the media portrays, The "news" is for entertainment value and the more sensational and controversial they can paint the picture the better the ratings.

I am still dumbfounded, This guy is the first guy I can remember who at least from the outside seemed to be a respectable gun owner who turned basket case shooter. And there is no doubt that that's exactly what he was. He fired at least 60 rounds into cars he knew people were in. He was a sociopath. Most all of these shootings you can look at the nut job and think "Well yeah, obviously that guy is not one of us" But this guy? Apparently he was either good at hiding his true self or something broke inside his brain. I think that is what freaks me out so much about this. I never interacted with the guy, but I have dealt with hundreds if not thousands of guys "just like" him (at least from an outward appearance) and the idea that one of those folks could end up a news story with people dead I find really unsettling. Logically you know it could happen but to know it could happen and to know it did happen are quite different things

I have always thought I could make a judgment about someone that was pretty good just by looking them in the eye and exchanging a few words. At least make up my mind if the guy was crazy or not. I have met plenty of guys who did not pass the test, But obviously this guy fooled a lot of people.

 

[t.huynh]

I wonder how many other members on here are also on stormfront. Although, I have to admit I am guilty of browsing their firearms forum before. I wonder how thatakes them feel?

 

[DieselScout]

I hope I am overreacting. Maybe since it has not been big national ongoing news its mostly already blown over and no one will come looking.

And its not the facts that worry me. IF you could count on the facts being reported in a objective way no one would have anything to worry about. Its the fact that I have seen first hand how things get twisted and mangled to push an agenda The truth almost always is different that the picture the media portrays, The "news" is for entertainment value and the more sensational and controversial they can paint the picture the better the ratings.

I am still dumbfounded, This guy is the first guy I can remember who at least from the outside seemed to be a respectable gun owner who turned basket case shooter. And there is no doubt that that's exactly what he was. He fired at least 60 rounds into cars he knew people were in. He was a sociopath. Most all of these shootings you can look at the nut job and think "Well yeah, obviously that guy is not one of us" But this guy? Apparently he was either good at hiding his true self or something broke inside his brain. I think that is what freaks me out so much about this. I never interacted with the guy, but I have dealt with hundreds if not thousands of guys "just like" him (at least from an outward appearance) and the idea that one of those folks could end up a news story with people dead I find really unsettling. Logically you know it could happen but to know it could happen and to know it did happen are quite different things

I have always thought I could make a judgment about someone that was pretty good just by looking them in the eye and exchanging a few words. At least make up my mind if the guy was crazy or not. I have met plenty of guys who did not pass the test, But obviously this guy fooled a lot of people.

Pulling down his posts is not that answer because in an information vacuum the media has a bad habit of speculation. Do you really want the media to speculate as why the posts were removed? Leave them up, leave them for everyone to read because if "facts be dammed" we should at least leave the truth up there that this forum had nothing to do with what he did.

As far as browsing a white power forum. I don't support businesses that are anti-gun so there is no way I am going to support a site that's anti-people. And don't kid yourself visiting is support as sites thrive off traffic.