National ATF: Until recreational cannabis is federally legalized, pot users cannot own guns

[Cavedweller]

Anyone who thinks pot has any medicinal value is fooling themself and/or just looking for a socially acceptable excuse to get high. "Medical marijuana" is one of the greatest scams of all time and was only used as an incremental step to legalization.

 

[NMCB 133]

Anyone who thinks pot has any medicinal value is fooling themself and/or just looking for a socially acceptable excuse to get high. "Medical marijuana" is one of the greatest scams of all time and was only used as an incremental step to legalization.

Yikes! Gonna beg to differ

 

[Ura-Ki]

Anyone who thinks pot has any medicinal value is fooling themself and/or just looking for a socially acceptable excuse to get high. "Medical marijuana" is one of the greatest scams of all time and was only used as an incremental step to legalization.

Apparently you have never experienced Cancer first hand, nor have you experienced the miracle of Marijuana in treatment/pain management!
Before you paint with such a wide brush, you might wanna do some street level research into that which you espouse such profound knowledge!

 

[Cavedweller]

Apparently you have never experienced Cancer first hand, nor have you experienced the miracle of Marijuana in treatment/pain management!
Before you paint with such a wide brush, you might wanna do some street level research into that which you espouse such profound knowledge!

Marijuana is useless for pain. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[lucusloc]

Marijuana is useless for pain. Don't ask me how I know.

Different things work for different people. Ask me how I know.

Ok I'll tell you anyway, I am a redhead and my genetics mean that basically all painkillers do bupkis for me. Everything form OTC to RX and the stuff they have to give you under supervision, at best it just takes the edge off the pain. Sucks to be me.

If something works for pain management for you, well all I can say is I am jealous. I don't even care if it is placebo or medically proven to be effective (for most people). I can believe that wacky tabacky works for some people, just like alcohol works for some people just like tylenol works for some people. As with all things moderation is necessary for responsible use. If you are not capable of that then it does not matter what you choose to abuse, be it drugs, thrills or food, it will eventually kill you just as dead as anything else.

 

[Cavedweller]

Different things work for different people. Ask me how I know.

Ok I'll tell you anyway, I am a redhead and my genetics mean that basically all painkillers do bupkis for me. Everything form OTC to RX and the stuff they have to give you under supervision, at best it just takes the edge off the pain. Sucks to be me.

If something works for pain management for you, well all I can say is I am jealous. I don't even care if it is placebo or medically proven to be effective (for most people). I can believe that wacky tabacky works for some people, just like alcohol works for some people just like tylenol works for some people. As with all things moderation is necessary for responsible use. If you are not capable of that then it does not matter what you choose to abuse, be it drugs, thrills or food, it will eventually kill you just as dead as anything else.

Thanks for the lecture.

 

[lucusloc]

Thanks for the lecture.

Hey if you are going to argue about what does and does not work for pain management it needs to be said. Different stuff works for different people, so making general proclamations is a fools errand. I hate it when doctors do it to me and trying to make that the foundation of your argument is going to raise the same kind of ire from others.

 

[Cavedweller]

Hey if you are going to argue about what does and does not work for pain management it needs to be said. Different stuff works for different people, so making general proclamations is a fools errand. I hate it when doctors do it to me and trying to make that the foundation of your argument is going to raise the same kind of ire from others.

Show me some data from clinical trials (actual, professionally supervised, double blind, statistically tested, peer reviewed) and not just anecdotal accounts and then we'll talk about what works and what doesn't.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Show me some data from clinical trials (actual, professionally supervised, double blind, statistically tested, peer reviewed) and not just anecdotal accounts and then we'll talk about what works and what doesn't.

Won't happen! Not because it isn't out there, but because the Feds forbid any legit research, testing, or other proof, all because Big Pharma has a stranglehold upon American medicine, and because M.J. bad, so no creditable doctor would dare risk their future, and no practice could withstand fed scrutiny for advising the use or even prescribing medical cleared and approved M.J. and yet some do!
Ask your self, why do they prescribe it if it has no value, why risk the wrath of the gooberment if it's so bad, and yet it is prescribed, amd it does work for many, id eager far more then you could possible imagine!

Don't make a statement of personal opinion and then insist it's unquestionable fact!

 

[lucusloc]

Show me some data from clinical trials (actual, professionally supervised, double blind, statistically tested, peer reviewed) and not just anecdotal accounts and then we'll talk about what works and what doesn't.

I can barely show you clinical trials of redhead genetics. It is a facet of pain management that has barely begun to be understood. But I can tell you that I have baffled and even scared doctors with the dosages needed to get my to even the lowest levels of "numb," including passing the blind touch tests because they straight up do not believe me. Medicine is not a solved science, and for ages it operated under the assumptions that everyone was more or less the same. We are only now just starting the age of truly individualized medicine and there is a wealth of data that is simply unknown. It will probably take another century or more for this new paradigm to become the default.

But I can tell you there is more peer revised research on medical cannibals and its effects than there is on "the redhead problem." So far I am only aware of one clinical trial on redhead, and that only served to establish "yeah, there is something real and odd going on here." Medical cannabis has dozens of real, peer reviewed studies. Not all agree on effect or impact, but they all point to at least some benefit. More research is needed to nail down the who, what and how, but it does seem to work quite well for at least some people. Anything past that is still open for debate.

 

[Cavedweller]

Ask your self, why do they prescribe it if it has no value, why risk the wrath of the gooberment if it's so bad, and yet it is prescribed, amd it does work for many, id eager far more then you could possible imagine!

Who prescribes it, may I ask?

 

[lucusloc]

Won't happen! Not because it isn't out there, but because the Feds forbid any legit research, testing, or other proof, all because Big Pharma has a stranglehold upon American medicine, and because M.J. bad, so no creditable doctor would dare risk their future, and no practice could withstand fed scrutiny for advising the use or even prescribing medical cleared and approved M.J. and yet some do!
Ask your self, why do they prescribe it if it has no value, why risk the wrath of the gooberment if it's so bad, and yet it is prescribed, amd it does work for many, id eager far more then you could possible imagine!

Don't make a statement of personal opinion and then insist it's unquestionable fact!

Other nations are doing decent research on natural cannabis. Norway and Holland I think are the leaders, but Germany and I think France(?) have started spinning up large scale clinical trials. Big Pharma will get into it as soon as they figure out how to put a patent on some aspect of the treatment, so that is coming too (there is a lot of that kind of research here in the U.S., they just have not brought anything to market yet. Yes, even our government is involved as NIH has quite a few published papers on it.)

 

[Cavedweller]

I can barely show you clinical trials of redhead genetics. It is a facet of pain management that has barely begun to be understood. But I can tell you that I have baffled and even scared doctors with the dosages needed to get my to even the lowest levels of "numb," including passing the blind touch tests because they straight up do not believe me. Medicine is not a solved science, and for ages it operated under the assumptions that everyone was more or less the same. We are only now just starting the age of truly individualized medicine and there is a wealth of data that is simply unknown. It will probably take another century or more for this new paradigm to become the default.

But I can tell you there is more peer revised research on medical cannibals and its effects than there is on "the redhead problem." So far I am only aware of one clinical trial on redhead, and that only served to establish "yeah, there is something real and odd going on here." Medical cannabis has dozens of real, peer reviewed studies. Not all agree on effect or impact, but they all point to at least some benefit. More research is needed to nail down the who, what and how, but it does seem to work quite well for at least some people. Anything past that is still open for debate.

I wasn't asking about clinical trials on the "redhead problem." That's a big "who cares?" (just kidding - hope you can take a joke). If you can point me to some clinical trials on the efficacy of Mary Jane for pain control, I would appreciate it.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Who prescribes it, may I ask?

Most of the Major Cancer Centers will prescribe it, as will many Clinics, even those who receive Fed Funding, when you have such major players as Phil Knight, who not only fund major research, but operate some of the most serious and advanced research and treatment centers across the land, ( Including the Flag Ship Cancer Research Center in Beaverton Oregon) the Feds turn a blind eye! Your not likely to get any sort of prescription from any of the Commercial Health systems, such as OHSU, or Keiser Permente! Even then, most Doctors and Nurses will give a Wink and a Nod if you ask them IF you should try it, but are otherwise forbiddin by the system to prescribe it or to even discuss it with you!

 

[lucusloc]

I wasn't asking about clinical trials on the "redhead problem." That's a big "who cares?" (just kidding - hope you can take a joke). If you can point me to some clinical trials on the efficacy of Mary Jane for pain control, I would appreciate it.

here is one from the NIH (U.S.) from 2015;

Medical Marijuana for Treatment of Chronic Pain and Other Medical and Psychiatric Problems: A Clinical Review - PubMed

Medical marijuana is used to treat a host of indications, a few of which have evidence to support treatment with marijuana and many that do not. Physicians should educate patients about medical marijuana to ensure that it is used appropriately and that patients will benefit from its use.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There are more studies linked in this summary article

Medicinal Cannabis for Treatment of Chronic Pain - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

but most of them seem to be paywalled.

Here is another study tracking patients who use medical cannabis for long term effectiveness;

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20503245231172535

This one was an analytic study to direct measure the pain response to some of the major components of cannabis (notably CBD and THC);

An experimental randomized study on the analgesic effects... : PAIN

and cannabidiol (CBD) content: Bedrocan (22.4-mg THC, <1-mg CBD; Bedrocan International BV, Veendam, the Netherlands), Bediol (13.4-mg THC, 17.8-mg CBD; Bedrocan International BV, Veendam, the Netherlands), Bedrolite (18.4-mg CBD, <1-mg THC; Bedrocan International BV, Veendam, the Netherlands)...

journals.lww.com

A cursory review of the conclusion seems to indicate that CBD is the primary pain suppressant as THC was close to the placebo.

Please note I did not include the many meta studies, large scale survey studies or non-peer reviewed institutional reports (other than the one summary article), all of which might cite further analytical or statistical studies. Also I kept my search to native English language studies, which will filter out some of the hotbeds of cannabis studies I mentioned earlier.

 

[Cavedweller]

here is one from the NIH (U.S.) from 2015;

Medical Marijuana for Treatment of Chronic Pain and Other Medical and Psychiatric Problems: A Clinical Review - PubMed

Medical marijuana is used to treat a host of indications, a few of which have evidence to support treatment with marijuana and many that do not. Physicians should educate patients about medical marijuana to ensure that it is used appropriately and that patients will benefit from its use.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There are more studies linked in this summary article

Medicinal Cannabis for Treatment of Chronic Pain - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

but most of them seem to be paywalled.

Here is another study tracking patients who use medical cannabis for long term effectiveness;

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20503245231172535

This one was an analytic study to direct measure the pain response to some of the major components of cannabis (notably CBD and THC);

An experimental randomized study on the analgesic effects... : PAIN

and cannabidiol (CBD) content: Bedrocan (22.4-mg THC, <1-mg CBD; Bedrocan International BV, Veendam, the Netherlands), Bediol (13.4-mg THC, 17.8-mg CBD; Bedrocan International BV, Veendam, the Netherlands), Bedrolite (18.4-mg CBD, <1-mg THC; Bedrocan International BV, Veendam, the Netherlands)...

journals.lww.com

A cursory review of the conclusion seems to indicate that CBD is the primary pain suppressant as THC was close to the placebo.

Please note I did not include the many meta studies, large scale survey studies or non-peer reviewed institutional reports (other than the one summary article), all of which might cite further analytical or statistical studies. Also I kept my search to native English language studies, which will filter out some of the hotbeds of cannabis studies I mentioned earlier.

Thank you. I'll look these over.

 

[Cavedweller]

Most of the Major Cancer Centers will prescribe it, as will many Clinics, even those who receive Fed Funding, when you have such major players as Phil Knight, who not only fund major research, but operate some of the most serious and advanced research and treatment centers across the land, ( Including the Flag Ship Cancer Research Center in Beaverton Oregon) the Feds turn a blind eye! Your not likely to get any sort of prescription from any of the Commercial Health systems, such as OHSU, or Keiser Permente! Even then, most Doctors and Nurses will give a Wink and a Nod if you ask them IF you should try it, but are otherwise forbiddin by the system to prescribe it or to even discuss it with you!

By prescribe it, do you mean they will write you a prescription, or just recommend it? It was my understanding that, under state law, a physician could authorize issuance of a card, which would allow purchase, but they could not prescribe such.

 

[Ura-Ki]

As noted above, Cannabis in it's elemental forms I.E. CBD and THC are quite effective, especially once you step outside the medicinal strains and into the wonderfully powerful commercial ones! Smoking is still by far the fastest and most efficient means of getting it into the body and working toward pain, however, it's a short term gain, long term health problem in that it's like smoking anything else, your pulmonary system will eventually build resistance to it, and you will suffer long term damage! Still, when facing extreme pain from a tumor or other insidious forms of cancer, relief at any cost is a cost worth bearing! CBD is the most effective at longer term treatment, especially for chronic pains, more commonly referred to as edibles, in it's pure form, CBD oils can nearly match Smoking and in it's far more friendly form of Vaping, with out the health risks, especially with the super power strains now widely available, a few small drops under the tongue is usually enough to get you through, a few more as the effect begins to take, and finally, if needed, a couple more for full relief! The Very best of them all is a full blend CBD/THC combo Oil, taken directly from the "Bud" you can do it your self, or buy it already in oil form, ether way, for maximum effect, that's the way to go! CDB alone doesn't get you the high, it's the THC that gives the euphoric feelings, so blend appropriately! There are also different strains of cannabis, usually broken down into Stevia and Indica Strains, one is the "Happy Blend" and usually has a higher TCH to CBD ratio, and the the other is the opposite, the "Mellow" blend with Higher CBD and lower THC, find the one best matched to your needs!

PHUCK CANCER!

 

[Ura-Ki]

By prescribe it, do you mean they will write you a prescription, or just recommend it? It was my understanding that, under state law, a physician could authorize issuance of a card, which would allow purchase, but they could not prescribe such.

Yes, and NO, depends on the state! Oregon Can prescribe it and dispense it, but most insurance will not cover it, so you have to go out on your own to find it, and pay for it out of pocket, which is FAR cheaper then from the Clinics anyway! Other states are more reserved, Aridzona cannot prescribe it, but can issue a card, but your still on your own to source it, and when We were doing the "Snow Bird Thing" Aridzona hadn't legalized it yet, and I don't know if that has since changed, we had to do the illegal thing and drive to Nevada or Cali, or NM to buy it, as long as you had a valid card, you were not likely to get busted for having small amounts in your car or on your person!

 

[billdeserthills]

Who prescribes it, may I ask?

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