National ATF: Until recreational cannabis is federally legalized, pot users cannot own guns

[billdeserthills]

"Sell drugs, run guns, nail sluts, and bubblegum the law." - Thomas Jefferson probably

These guys say Lincoln never said his famous quote about smoking hemp

Was Abraham Lincoln a Stoner?

On the 214th birthday of our 16th president, we ask the inevitable question: Did Abraham Lincoln get high?

www.celebstoner.com

 

[lucusloc]

I've always wondered how that section hasn't been torn up - it's got more holes than a target after a range day. At what point does a person transition from "unlawful user" to "former unlawful user"? Is there a statute of limitations, or is it a perpetual thing - once an unlawful user, always an unlawful user? If so, my entire high school graduating class would be ineligible to own a gun. Which begs the question, what about someone who smoked weed when under the age of 18, and now is over 21? Can you count usage when the person is not legally an adult? And how is being forced to answer a question like that not a violation of our 5th amendment protection against self incrimination?

So many questions... absent some explanations I guess I'll just continue to assume it means whatever I think it means.

Late to the party, but there is some court precedent or other that say that failure to declare an illegally held firearm is not itself a violation that can be charged. This means that the statute can only be used against a person who is otherwise legally able to possess a gun, i.e. a failure to register offense can only be used against someone who is a. otherwise legally able to own the firearm and b. intending to follow the law. In all other cases the requirement for registration laws would be a requirement to self-incriminate.

Of course this does not stop law enforcement from using these statutes to pad charges for a plea deal, but these specific charges are basically always dropped from the actual filed charges if the criminal case goes forwards.

But for a legal gun owner who got caught up in some legal issue? Yeah, their choice is to take the rap for a failure to register, or to declare they intended to flout the law and take the rap for illegal possession of a firearm. It is a classic case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

(I will try and find the case/opinion that set this precedent, I think it was from a midwest sate somewhere.)

 

[sobo]

I've always wondered how that section hasn't been torn up - it's got more holes than a target after a range day. At what point does a person transition from "unlawful user" to "former unlawful user"? Is there a statute of limitations, or is it a perpetual thing - once an unlawful user, always an unlawful user? If so, my entire high school graduating class would be ineligible to own a gun.

There is no prohibition against buying a firearm if one is a former user/addict. Question 11e of the 4473 is quite clear in that it refers to the present tense. Note the very first word of the question:



"Are" is a word in the present tense, as in "currently." If your dope-smokin', cocaine-snortin', crack-free-basin', meth-inhalin' days are behind you (that is, your addiction has clearly been overcome), and you were never convicted of a felony, then you can truthfully answer this question in the negative.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Late to the party, but there is some court precedent or other that say that failure to declare an illegally held firearm is not itself a violation that can be charged. This means that the statute can only be used against a person who is otherwise legally able to possess a gun, i.e. a failure to register offense can only be used against someone who is a. otherwise legally able to own the firearm and b. intending to follow the law. In all other cases the requirement for registration laws would be a requirement to self-incriminate.

Of course this does not stop law enforcement from using these statutes to pad charges for a plea deal, but these specific charges are basically always dropped from the actual filed charges if the criminal case goes forwards.

But for a legal gun owner who got caught up in some legal issue? Yeah, their choice is to take the rap for a failure to register, or to declare they intended to flout the law and take the rap for illegal possession of a firearm. It is a classic case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

(I will try and find the case/opinion that set this precedent, I think it was from a midwest sate somewhere.)

I gotch'a fam

Haynes v. United States, 390 U.S. 85 (1968)

Haynes v. United States

supreme.justia.com

 

[ma96782]

What happens next with these people?

Biden pardons marijuana use nationwide. Here's what that means

President Joe Biden announced he's pardoning every American who has used marijuana in the past, including those who were never arrested or prosecuted.

www.yahoo.com

Aloha, Mark

 

[wired]

What happens next with these people?

Biden pardons marijuana use nationwide. Here's what that means

President Joe Biden announced he's pardoning every American who has used marijuana in the past, including those who were never arrested or prosecuted.

www.yahoo.com

Aloha, Mark

A meaningless gesture that only applies to federal charges. Does not apply to state charges that are 99+% of marijuana charges. 1:2000 federal vs state.

He can change the schedule of the drug unilaterally. I dont see that happening.

 

[Jcon268]

A meaningless gesture that only applies to federal charges. Does not apply to state charges that are 99+% of marijuana charges. 1:2000 federal vs state.

He can change the schedule of the drug unilaterally. I dont see that happening.

Too little, too late.

 

[OneArgus]

So seems like POTUS left nut job, is going to allow Federal Felons who most likely had high crimes and violence involved in trafficking LOOSE. And keep those with dime bag charges in jail.
Another example of the lefts, passing laws that fuel their reelections and do nothing.

 

[wired]

So seems like POTUS left nut job, is going to allow Federal Felons who most likely had high crimes and violence involved in trafficking LOOSE. And keep those with dime bag charges in jail.
Another example of the lefts, passing laws that fuel their reelections and do nothing.

Simple possession only

 

[The Heretic]

Too little, too late.

Small Moves

 

[ma96782]

Arguably......now a days, even a suitcase full of MJ could also be thought of by some as strictly "for personal use".



Aloha, Mark

 

[wired]

View attachment 1787186

View attachment 1787190

Arguably......now a days, even a suitcase full of MJ could also be thought of by some as strictly "for personal use".

View attachment 1787183

Aloha, Mark

The federal standard is 50kG. Yes Thats 110 lbs or less.

 

[Cosimel]

What happens next with these people?

Biden pardons marijuana use nationwide. Here's what that means

President Joe Biden announced he's pardoning every American who has used marijuana in the past, including those who were never arrested or prosecuted.

www.yahoo.com

Aloha, Mark

I wouldn't think this would have any consequence for a Hunter Biden type case, were it to be the use of pot instead of coke, because he's being charged with lying on the 4473. If he was also or instead being charged as a prohibited person in possession of a firearm (at the Federal level) and the sole reason for being prohibited was for the personal use of pot (not coke), them that crime would have been pardoned by Biden today. While this move by Biden may lead to decriminalization nationally, that still wouldn't necessarily dismiss any case that could be made for lying about use on the 4473 before it was decriminalized since the crime isn't technically the use of any particular drug, but for lying about it on a Federal form. But since the burden of proof would fall on the Federal prosecutor to prove you were using at the time you filed a 4473, unless you're 'Hunter' stupid and left video evidence for them to find, then it's as unlikely to be prosecuted after decriminalization as it is now, sans any other Federal crimes. It does raise the question as to whether you'd be lying on a 4473 filed after Biden's pardon, assuming it was only for pot use.

 

[Cavedweller]

A meaningless gesture that only applies to federal charges. Does not apply to state charges that are 99+% of marijuana charges. 1:2000 federal vs state.

Not necessarily meaningless. Could be very significant for members of the military who got busted and did time and/or got a dishonorable discharge because they got caught with a joint (it happens).

Is illegal drug trade still cheaper than legal drug trade? That could be a problem. If only our "leaders" had thought of that.

No. There are still folks who cannot buy legally: Minors and those who cannot produce ID (the undocumented, for example). So there's a mark up. The legalization of recreational use has just made it easier for the redistributor to find a source of supply.

Sorry I posted...enjoy the thread.....sigh Andy

I know how you feel. Some people have no sense of humor.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I know how you feel. Some people have no sense of humor.

Sounds like a job for the bailiff

 

[rdb241]

No. There are still folks who cannot buy legally: Minors and those who cannot produce ID (the undocumented, for example). So there's a mark up. The legalization of recreational use has just made it easier for the redistributor to find a source of supply.

Please explain how you obtained any lnowledge of the illagal industry vs. the lagal industry?

 

[ma96782]

Imagine : What If......Gavin Newsom ran for President.

Under the platform of........

"Pardons. For everyone convicted of minor marihuana crimes."





Awwwww.......Come On Man
Will that be, before or after, the illegals get citizenship (and the vote).








Is that you Brandon?

Aloha, Mark

 

[Cavedweller]

Please explain how you obtained any lnowledge of the illagal industry vs. the lagal industry?

I talk to people. I hear things.

 

[ma96782]

RE : Post #245 and Post #257


Gavin already has already been given the GREEN LIGHT from Brandon.
What?
Want some more info?

Biden said he is also urging state governors to take the same action, to pardon people convicted of similar state court offenses.

"Just as no one should be in a federal prison solely due to the use or possession of marijuana, no one should be in a local jail or state prison for that reason, either," he said.

Taken from.....

Experts say Biden's pardons for federal marijuana possession won't have broad impact

President Joe Biden's pardons to Americans convicted of federal marijuana crimes won't have as broad an impact, experts say.

www.yahoo.com

Aloha, Mark

 

[rdb241]

I talk to people. I hear things.

Honestly that means nothing. Anything second hand is not reliable at all.