National ATF Announces Proposed Bump Stock Rule Change

[nehalemguy]

The proposal would redefine them as a machine gun. 90 day public comment period started yesterday. No mention of triggers...."bump-stock-type devices" only.

Federal Register :: Bump-Stock-Type Devices

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[slimmer13]

Umm no

because such devices allow a shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger

 

[FireArm]

A piece of plastic becomes a machine gun , that's democrat logic, libtards

 

[Argonaut]

I also read that this morning. My opinions on bump stocks have been stated several times here. I see no relation between what a product is made with (plastic) to how it is classed by the ATF (or anyone else) plastic lowers have long been classed as a firearm....(Glock et al) the tin foil hat guys here a couple of months ago were all upset that the upcoming law was going to make custom triggers illegal on everything.......I replied, that was nonsense and that the law would be narrowly written with the assistance of the NRA........and that seems to be the direction it is going. I will not morn the passing of bumpstocks but will celebrate the (federal) non restriction of the AR platform that has become the Winchester lever action rifle of our time. Bumpstocks are a small bone to offer in exchange for more draconian measures being promoted by the anti's. You guys that live in bad places that are moving towards AR restrictions have to take control of your own enviorment to prevent the legislation that installs further restrictions than the federal law. In Idaho, we just codified the stand your ground law stating in clear language that trespassers with a reasonable perceived intent to do harm can (and will) be shot. We also have budget surpluses and great roads.......but we haven't given up to the wacko left.

 

[nwslopoke]

The DOT needs to redefine the accelerator pedal in your car. It mimics that of a race car.

The point of having separate departments in government was to avoid this. I thought the democrats were wussy.

 

[FireArm]

We give a little with every restrictive law, its a slippery slope that we are racing down (at this point). I don't own a bump stock and never have, I don't see giving up more items that libtards see as "dangerous" to helping our cause, but only weakening the ground we have left to stand on. What part of shall not be infringed does that fall under!!??

 

[The Heretic]

It will probably be challenged in court as there are a lot of assumptions in the regulation about how the stock is used and how the shooter manipulates the trigger.

Argonaut - the reason we said that triggers would be included is because a lot of the proposed state laws included triggers or any other device that caused the rate of fire of a firearm to be increased, and explicitly included trigger devices, not just bumpstocks and IIRC some of the federal legislators and gun control activists were proposing similar legislation.

Also, given the history of gun control legislation, it is not at all a stretch to say that even if they regulate/legislate only bumpstocks now, it is not at all a stretch of the imagination to assume that triggers would be next.

Currently triggers seem more popular than bumpstocks because triggers allow for a finer control and are more versatile in that they can be used in 'pistols' and other configurations (folding/collapsible/etc. stocks) and some allow for mode switching (binary v. non-binary) - so I would assume they are the next target if they are not now.

The problem with throwing the anti-gun people a bone is that they take it as encouragement to go after the meat.

 

[Argonaut]

I don't see the redifinition of bump stocks to a NFA item to be a problem or a slippery slope. What your state does is your responsibility.......not the feds or members of other free states (or within our ability) to control.......you have to do it. Even to go to the Supreme Court for a ruling, you have to be the people to bring the suit and work it through the system. It costs millions of dollars and sometimes a decade of time. What have you contributed today?

 

[Boboclown]

Historically once regulation is added they just go for further regulation later, and for the most part we haven't gotten any of the freedom returned. The only exception was the assault weapons ban, and that was only because of the sunset clause.

I don't own a bumpstock, nor do I care to own one, but is there any example where they get slme regulation then stopped?

 

[CPF]

If this is in the wrong area please move it.

This was just put in the federal register

www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/03/29/2018-06292/bump-stock-type-devices

Send in your comments.

I don't see a grandfather clause.

 

[Argonaut]

Historically once regulation is added they just go for further regulation later, and for the most part we haven't gotten any of the freedom returned. The only exception was the assault weapons ban, and that was only because of the sunset clause.

I don't own a bumpstock, nor do I care to own one, but is there any example where they get slme regulation then stopped?

That is patently untrue. Many firearms (and other laws) have gone away or been reduced. Do you remember when we had to sign for handgun ammunition? The Supreme Court has ruled against many state and local gun laws they perceive infringe on the second amendment. That being said.......it is you guys living in locales trying to infringe on your Federal rights are responsible for your own situation.

 

[Boboclown]

So when can we have guns delivered to our door?

And no, I'm not trying to infringe on rights and always vote for someone who is promising to be pro-2A (yes even locally). The problem is even people promising to be pro-2A don't always live up to their promise.

 

[Argonaut]

So when can we have guns delivered to our door?

And no, I'm not trying to infringe on rights and always vote for someone who is promising to be pro-2A (yes even locally). The problem is even people promising to be pro-2A don't always live up to their promise.

So.....it is a human problem? (Probably true) I have never voted my personal self interest in an election (they say most people do) I made so much money directly from Bill Clinton's policies it was ridiculous..........but always supported and voted for the opposition. When bad people reveal themselves they need to be eliminated. It has always been the way societies function. In our time of complacency and non self reliance it is difficult but no less necessary. I don't see an unlicensed individual's non ability to have any firearm delivered to his door to be an infringement. The law says you can make your own firearm legally....like the background check and stamp requirement on NFA items........(like this new regulation is calling for) it only helps minimize bad guys getting them. The moral of the story is don't get a felony and make enough money to afford the stamp. When Pete Wilson was elected Governor of California in 1991, I had a sighted 6.5 million dollar contract with the state to cap leaking oil wells off Summerland beech. I was in the process of mobilizing equipment and people to do the job. Had spent at least 500,000 of my own hard cash in the acquisition of equipment and moving it into the area trying to be a responsible contractor. Pete didn't like the state of the budget and cancelled all outstanding contracts (I didn't know that could even be done) and the new contract written 18 months later was only for 1.5 million and a fraction of the complete job. So, I lost something like 1 million dollars and several million dollars in income by his decision. I still supported him because of why he did it. He balanced the California budget and turned out to be a very good capeable administrator. I voted for him and sent him money (as little I had remaining) throughout his time in office.

 

[The Heretic]

I don't see the redifinition of bump stocks to a NFA item to be a problem or a slippery slope.

Then you have not been paying attention to the past, especially with regards to 'compromises' and guns or gun parts that are not important to one person, but are to others.

The NFA itself. The 1968 GCA. The 1986 ban on further manufacture of "machine guns" for civilian purchase.

ATF reclassifies certain shotguns as "destructive devices" just by saying they are "not suitable for sporting purposes".

ATF classifies certain "armor piercing" ammo as 'banned' because it can be shot in a pistol and/or is "not sutiable for sporting purposes".

The whole history of gun control has been one of chipping away at our rights. Take this that or the other thing away from gun owners, one thing at a time. Divide and conquer.

Whether federal or state, it matters. Saying "oh too bad for you, I am fine here in my state". Well, WA and Oregon not too long ago were just as conservative as Idaho or almost any other state with regards to gun laws. This is how the gun control people are working, state by state. They know federal laws are really hard to get, but if they can get into a state legislature they can do in the state what they can't do in WA DC. Eventually this will include Idaho, and Montana and Wyoming and Utah and the whole western USA. Colorado has started down that road. It is only a matter of time.

Moreover, when someone travels from Idaho or some other free state to Oregon or WA or California, better leave your semi-auto anything behind, because it won't be welcome. Forget about moving here.

 

[Boboclown]

ATF classifies certain "armor piercing" ammo as 'banned' because it can be shot in a pistol and/or is "not sutiable for sporting purposes".

Just the pistol part. The whole reason for the stupid 7N6 ban was because there were 5.45 pistols and 7N6 was somehow armor piercing. Thanks for screwing us over ATF.

 

[Eveskcige28]

There description of a bump stock and what it does is 100% false.
" a semiautomatic firearm to which a bump-stock-type device is attached is able to produce automatic fire with a single pull of the trigger."
To use a bump stock to fire "full auto" takes a lot of manipulation..
"these devices convert an otherwise semiautomatic firearm into a machinegun by functioning as a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism that harnesses the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm in a manner that allows the trigger to reset and continue firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter"

Without additional physical manipulation.... completely wrong...

 

[oneharmonic]

Can Trump even do this without an act of Congress?

Say what you want about Obama, but at least he let the ATF operate independently without asking the DOJ to interfere with their rulings.

 

[The Heretic]

Just the pistol part. The whole reason for the stupid 7N6 ban was because there were 5.45 pistols and 7N6 was somehow armor piercing. Thanks for screwing us over ATF.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, provides the Attorney General the authority to exempt projectiles from the restrictions applicable to "armor piercing" ammunition if he determines the projectile is "primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes."

Armor Piercing Ammunition Exemption Framework | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[slimmer13]

I don't see the redifinition of bump stocks to a NFA item to be a problem or a slippery slope. What your state does is your responsibility.......not the feds or members of other free states (or within our ability) to control.......you have to do it. Even to go to the Supreme Court for a ruling, you have to be the people to bring the suit and work it through the system. It costs millions of dollars and sometimes a decade of time. What have you contributed today?

Its because they are just pulling stuff out of their bubblegum. If bump stocks were really a machine gun, don't you think extreme anti gun Obama would have banned them? Not even his ATF thought it turned a semi into an auto. One bullet per pull. That is the law. A device that helps you do that faster isn't against the law. Period.

Allowing them to essentially change law by regulation is the definition of slippery slope. It's like saying you are only allowed to pull the trigger once per second because that was the original spirit of the law even though it doesn't say that.

 

[Boboclown]

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, provides the Attorney General the authority to exempt projectiles from the restrictions applicable to "armor piercing" ammunition if he determines the projectile is "primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes."

Armor Piercing Ammunition Exemption Framework | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Lately they have been just basing it on whether or not there's a pistol for the round.