Armslist Scams - please explain

[sleepygreen]

I have been burned before using PayPal when the buyer did a credit card chargeback

 

[Alexx1401]

Of course. My reference was to shipping not receiving. I've shipped about 5 firearms or so and a few things such as ammo out of state.

I've also had scammers swear they were the person that send me the ID scan.

USPS money order or electronic payment via Square Cash.

This is why I will not buy anything that says M/O only. Don't care how good the deal looks. I don't mind paying the few percent they want to use a Credit Card. The only way to pay on line is with a Credit Card. In the US you are very well protected this way. If you send a M/O and the seller sends nothing only recourse would be trying to take them to court.

 

[RVTECH]

Hard to believe but there are unscrupulous FFL's out there.

Yea on an unrelated issue I was discussing just this with an LEO relative of mine and he was telling me when they confiscate guns from crimes and if they 'check out' OK they sell them to a particular FFL they work with and the money goes into a particular city fund but they discovered on some of the deals the FFL had not given them a fair assessment of the gun and paid them considerably less than what it was worth - even factoring in the profit angle but in this case I told him maybe they need to do some research on their own or get another FFls opinion before blindly taking one FFLs word.

 

[Joe13]

I am selling something on Armslist and have gotten some offers from buyers in other states. One is obviously a scam, which I have learned to detect through craigslist type dealings. Question is what does the "buyer" have to gain? Given how it is worded, they are most likely foreign. They send me fake money order, I send gun to US FFL, how does foreigner obtain gun or what info are they gaining?

Insist on PayPal or nothing. I learned that one recently.

 

[Joe13]

I have been burned before using PayPal when the buyer did a credit card chargeback

Didn't know about that... won't they protect you if you keep receipts?

 

[sleepygreen]

Insist on PayPal or nothing. I learned that one recently.

How do you protect against chargebacks?

 

[sleepygreen]

Didn't know about that... won't they protect you if you keep receipts?

Not that I know of, especially if it's for guns

 

[Joe13]

How do you protect against chargebacks?

Receipts? I'm still learning.

 

[sleepygreen]

Receipts? I'm still learning.

Receipts won't matter. Buyer can go to credit card company and tell them that someone stole their cc number and they will reverse the charge. PayPal will then go after you to recover funds.

 

[ORYGUNHolsterCompany]

When I get stuck on a armslist deal I insist on having the firearm dropped off at the ffl it will be shipping from, and pay the the ffl to broker the deal, usually not more than 5%. Last one I had done was for a colt ar, paid $850 for the rifle and paid the guys local ffl $40 to grade and function check the rifle. Sent the $ directly to the ffl and "they" paid the seller, after checking out the rifle for me.

 

[Alexx1401]

Receipts? I'm still learning.

PayPal is great for what they are. They are not a bank though so they are not bound by a lot of the laws. I still have a PP account in case I buy from Ebay but I NEVER use it unless there is no other way. If someone does a charge back PP may or may not protect you. They take the hit so I would not count on them eating it. I have "heard" they have rules against guns. Have not bothered to read up. If there is something in the fine print they could use that to tell you "soory sucks to be you".
Credit Cards offer an amazing amount of protection for the buyer. Probably some times too much. No doubt some will take advantage of it. Last time I sold on ebay and got burned it was for a mag that was like $10. Guy said he did not get it. Rather than fight it I just refunded his money. Did he get the mag? Probably. If he had fought it he could have forced PP to give him his money back and they would have wanted me to pay them. So I just wrote it off. Selling using PP to get the money is a risk for the seller. You just have to weight the risk and decide if it's worth it.

 

[Koda]

Im pretty much convinced after reading this thread, I will only sell locally.

How does anyone even make any money selling thru mail these days with shipping fees and background checks added to the cost?

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I've only done business on this site since shortly after I joined! Never had a bad experience here! This stems from a personal rule of never buying a firearm that I haven't held in my hands. The problems discussed here are just another scary element making me a local only guy! Sorry to all you folks that have been scanned! That sucks!

 

[WAYNO]

Im pretty much convinced after reading this thread, I will only sell locally.

How does anyone even make any money selling thru mail these days with shipping fees and background checks added to the cost?

Not all of us are in the business to make money. I buy/sell/collect/and/trade a lot of stuff that you'll never find in a local store or shop. So, more often than not, mail order is my only choice. Shipping and transfer fees, although unfair, are just a cost of being a gun collector.

There are pretty wide and well known groups of collectors that trade back and forth. So trustworthy, goods are often shipped even before payment is received. It saddens me to think that this group of straight-arrow folks are lumped in, no differently than the crooks that are damaging our hobby.

I have encountered more flakes on this forum, than on the collector-relevant websites, and I fear a FTF deal here, more than an on-line deal.

WAYNO.

 

[Alexx1401]

Im pretty much convinced after reading this thread, I will only sell locally.

How does anyone even make any money selling thru mail these days with shipping fees and background checks added to the cost?

Since they passed the law saying guns have to have the BGC I have sold a couple. Just went to the dealer and sold it. Was buying something else anyway so let them make me a deal. they no doubt made money on the deal but I was happy enough. Of course I could have made more selling face to face but that's the way it goes. I can't really see myself trying to sell out of state. Find it hard to believe I could make enough "more" that way to make it worth the trouble. I guess maybe if you were selling something "rare" or "collectible" where there was a limited market maybe????

 

[Koda]

Yes, I can see how something rare or collectable would be worth it...

But im talking about regular everyday guns like glocks, 1911, AR15....

Seems like nowadays when you buy a new gun and decide it isnt quite right for you, your stuck with it or face a huge loss.

 

[WAYNO]

Yes, I can see how something rare or collectable would be worth it...

But im talking about regular everyday guns like glocks, 1911, AR15....

Seems like nowadays when you buy a new gun and decide it isnt quite right for you, your stuck with it or face a huge loss.

I fully agree. Again, the cost of my hobby. If folks think their modern guns are an investment, I would disagree.

I buy a lot of guns, just to try them out. It's what I like to do. If it's something I like, I keep it. If it's nothing special or doesn't do a better job than the guns I have, they become trading material. There is no way to buy the latest plastic wonder-nine, try it out, decide ya don't like it, and expect to make money selling it. Yep, it can be an expensive hobby.

WAYNO.

 

[WildBills-AR]

I have first hand see where someone received the money orders they cashed them then few weeks later the bank contacts you wanting the money back if you do not pay the bank back they will file charges against you.
Second I have see people giving their credit card number to buy they then withdraw funds and don't send anything and no your not protected the bank will say you shouldn't of gave them the cc # so your out of luck. Personally I do cash only no exceptions face to face if that can't be done you can use a auction site but be prepared for a long wait to get things sorted out. And you still may not get your money. This is just from my own experances.

 

[johnrj48]

I am selling something on Armslist and have gotten some offers from buyers in other states. One is obviously a scam, which I have learned to detect through craigslist type dealings. Question is what does the "buyer" have to gain? Given how it is worded, they are most likely foreign. They send me fake money order, I send gun to US FFL, how does foreigner obtain gun or what info are they gaining?

They are in a hurry to hasten your response. They send a cashiers check because it seems secure. They add a little extra so you think they are fair and sincere. Then, you get the check and your bank deposits it. Then they respond a few times with, did you get it? when are you going to ship it out? I'm waiting...etc. You send your firearm in thinking it'll be ok. Then you return the additional funds that you didn't use. Your bank gives the ok, perhaps the next bank gives the ok but, eventually, the check bounces. You are now liable to your bank for the amount plus you lost the amount you sent back plus they have your checking account number for future scams. The gun may or may not be picked up at the dealer you sent it to. A third party may pick it up and then claim they sold it or it got stolen.
I have responded to them which put my name on their list. Don't even respond to them. Secondly, I would let them know that it will take at least 24 business days for their check to clear (sufficient for 2-3 banks). I one time put their check in a savings account with no money it it except what they had and it took a month to bounce. I have encouraged them to send cash FedEx overnight service and insure their envelope for the amount, which they don't do. They may send two checks which will both bounce eventually. They are attempting to get money plus identity and they may even be in Nigeria or some other country...where you send your gun may or may not be relevant...if you notice their initial responses, they don't even know what they are responding to in the ad because it doesn't matter. Anybody responding is a potential sucker...the account I used to work their deal (unsuccessfully) was just a dead account that didn't matter for identity or money.
Better to stick with local buyers and sellers and corporate businesses that are known to be reliable. If it ever comes up, I'll share how I got took on a Vietnam nostalgic collection of military items left behind to a nephew who would send it to me for just the postage...using Western Union...extensive phone talk and I thought it was ok. fortunately I only lost $50. and he cashed the check from a nearby Western Union pick up office and somehow didn't have to show identity. Suppose to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves but it seems to happen after the game is lost and not before...Life is tough, especially when you are stupid....(john Wayne)

 

[Ura-Ki]

This is why I do not feel good about "On Line" business, especially in firearms! I have bought a few arms "On Line" but they always were from a known source and the moneys were always secured and honest! Like some of you, I like rare, odd, different, and unique arms. As such, I have to do business if I want those things, so I look for Known dealers or vendors, or auction houses that are known and honest! like SgtNambu, I like F.T.F. and I like to touch and feel a firearm, function check, and a general look see before I buy, but it's just not always possible! I have yet to buy any thing from any one on here, for much the same reasons, and because I am out of the area, it makes it risky, and I'm not going to take that risk unless it's some one here that is a well known person like many of you fine upstanding people! I have been very close a few times, but alas, nothing has really tripped my fancy yet!