Are there any cartridges better than the .30-06?

[chainsaw]

If there was any cartridge that comes close to replacing the 30-06 it would be the .308 Winchester. Smaller case, just as easy to find, does anything the 30-06 does, same .30 cal bullets. brass everywhere. etc etc etc.

I agree with this,also throw in 8x57 as far as ballistics that a handloader can get.too bad availability isn`t better in the states,it is an excellent round.

 

[JGRuby]

I will take a 308 over a 30-06 in a semi auto. lever action or pump rifle. In a bolt or a single shot I will always take a 30-06 over a 308. A 30-06 loaded to the same pressure as a 308 will always out run a 308 plus I can use heavier bullets adding to the usefulness of the 30-06.

James Ruby.

 

[gunfreak]

JGRuby hit the nail on the head. The '06 has reigned supreme for 100 years and probably will continue to. Go into a gun shop and try to find as much spent brass in another caliber. I've shot many deer over the years and all of them drop like a sack of rocks from the 06.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

I don't think there's any question the 30-06 has lived it's day and done a fine job doing it but it's time to retire it and move on. The Saami pressures are rated too low for it and technology moved on. The .308 replaced it as the king of the medium calibers and the 7mm Remington Magnum is the king of the magnums. The .22 LR will never die and the
223 remington fills in the lower end of the varmint section. For hand guns the .357 mag will be here till the end of time and the .44 mag will rule the roost as the top magnum. The semi auto's will have the 9mm and the .40 SW till the ends of the earth. Not to leave the little 30-30 an orphan but it will be the one gun poor mans gun for eternity.

7mm king of the magnums? hmm, that's a VERY debatable claim. -06, retire it and move on?? Replaced by the .308??? .44 Mag ruling the roost as the top magnum? The same thing you state about the -06 could then be said about the good old .44 couldn't it? I will agree that the .22 LR will never die and that the .223 fills a nitch very well but heck, lets get rid of all our 25-06's, .270's, 280's .35 whelens and the .338-06 a square's to name a few that owe their existence to this outdated tired old cartridge, I mean after all technology has moved on and there is much more out there if only we would open our eyes right?

I have many, many long guns in a long list of calibers from which to choose and still I appreciate this cartridge for what it is, and that happens to be one of the very best cartridges designed. I'm not kicking any of the others, other than the short magnums which are just a different take on an old design which really doesn't do anything more than that which it was supposed to best, but you ruffled an old loader/shooters feathers with your comments. For that I apologize. As a side note, one should choose the 24" or longer barrel for the king of magnums or your pretty much replicating the ballistics of the .270 anyway.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

All right Spitpatch, you've been around long enough to know what kind of brawl you were starting with your post so out with it already, reveal your most anticipated wisdom my friend or let us know what jail they have your arse in so we can post bail

 

[MountainBear]

Has it really taken three pages to figure out that there really isn't a better cartridge than the .30-06?

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Nailed it^^^^^

 

[jonn5335]

Has it really taken three pages to figure out that there really isn't a better cartridge than the .30-06?

There are lot's of better/efficient cartridge designs then the 30-06. This is all about performance not popularity.

 

[JGRuby]

There are lot's of better/efficient cartridge designs then the 30-06. This is all about performance not popularity.

Please expound on the subject - you seem to know what you are talking about. To me a popular cartridge is popular for a reason - it does what needs to be done well. I feel that there are newer cartridges but few do better than the classics - thats why after a hundred years they are as popular as ever. I am interested in your perspective - please back up your statement.

James Ruby

 

[DieselScout]

Please expound on the subject - you seem to know what you are talking about. To me a popular cartridge is popular for a reason - it does what needs to be done well. I feel that there are newer cartridges but few do better than the classics - thats why after a hundred years they are as popular as ever. I am interested in your perspective - please back up your statement.

James Ruby

Shorter fatter cartridge's are more efficient then longer skinnier ones. It's why the short magnums can perform as well, as the standard magnums with less powder. The shorter and fatter cartridges lead to a more full case, which gives a more uniform burn. This leads to faster velocity, better accuracy and a better performing cartridges. Short magnums can preform as well as a conventional magnum with a shorter barrel because of this. So, while the the .30-06 is more popular then the .30 WSM, the WSM will out perform it.

Taking a quick look at Hodgdon reloading data, for a 165 gm Hornady GMX, using H4895

The .30-06's starting load has a Velocity of 2595ft/sec and the maximum load has a velocity of 2712ft/sec

The .30WSM's starting load has a Velocity of 2700ft/sec and the maximum load has a velocity of 2887ft/sec

With a Sierra 175gr HPBT Using H414

The .30-06's starting load has a Velocity of 2622ft/sec and the maximum load has a velocity of 2794ft/sec

The .30WSM's starting load has a Velocity of 2868ft/sec and the maximum load has a velocity of 3032ft/sec


Using the same bullets you're getting better performance. Does this make the .30WSM better then the .30-06? It depends on weather you're using performance to measure or popularity. I would say any cartridge is going lose the popularity contest to the .30-06, it's the 350 SBC of the shooting world.

EDIT: One last thing, I love my .30-06 and will not be trading it in on another rifle. It's my 30 caliber sweetheart and I don't need another. I would like something a little bigger, and I think a short mag is going to be it. I really like the .338RCM, I just wish one in the .35 caliber range would have caught on.

 

[JGRuby]

You forgot several factors
1) The operating pressures of the short magnums are much higher
2) You do not show that the short magnums actually require more powder than the 30-06
3) The powders you use are not the optimum for the 30-06 with the bullet weights chosen. They should not be they are significantly different cartridges.
4) Some of the short magnums are already being phased out.

James Ruby

 

[DieselScout]

You forgot several factors

I didn't forget them.

1) The operating pressures of the short magnums are much higher

True, but since I have to make a factual and not a hypothetical argument, I have to use what data I have in front of me. If we are having a hypothetical argument, then there is no answer and no purpose to the discussion. All different cartridges operate at different pressures, what's to say the operating pressure of the .30-06 is best?

2) You do not show that the short magnums actually require more powder than the 30-06

I don't see how this has any bearing on the discussion. The .30-06 uses more powder then the .308, so is the .308 better? What about the 7.62x54R, it uses less powder then the .30-06 as well.

3) The powders you use are not the optimum for the 30-06 with the bullet weights chosen. They should not be they are significantly different cartridges.

See the answer to number 1. I used the data that I had available to me at short notice. It was Hodgdon reloading information, it was quick and easy. I had to use bullet designs present on both sets of data. Again, I wanted a factual example.

4) Some of the short magnums are already being phased out.

Again, no bearing on my part of the discussion, since I was discussing performance, not popularity.

James Ruby

I understand what you're getting at, but no two cartridges are going to use the same quantity of powder, operate with the same pressures and have the same availability, it's why were having the discussion in the first place. We have variety in the shooting world, and it's a great thing. In an honest discussion of what caliber is better then another, things that are subjective have no place, but were bench racing here, so bring it on.

 

[MountainBear]

Yeah, the .30-06 is still better...

 

[JGRuby]

So a popular cartridge that is able to take any animal in North America, doesnt kick like a mule can be found in any place that sells ammuniton. The components are readily available - is made in almost any configuration you want to purchase your rifle in and has been in at least two world wars with countless skirmishes. Will more than likely be around in thirty years and was designed with a purpose other than to sell guns. I will take the 30-06 any day over a short magnum.

James Ruby

 

[orygun]

If there was any cartridge that comes close to replacing the 30-06 it would be the .308 Winchester. Smaller case, just as easy to find, does anything the 30-06 does, same .30 cal bullets. brass everywhere. etc etc etc.

Close is the operative word here. The .308 will do most of what the 30-06 will do until the bullet weights hit 180gr and heavier. Even then, the .308 isn't too far behind. But,
That's with factory loads. If you want to "roll your own" the velocity and energy levels the 30-06 will attain over the .308 is significant.

It's a very similar thing with the WSM (and others) compared to the long cased magnums. Up to a specific bullet weight the short mags clearly hold their own. Once you move up to the heavier bullets the larger case capacity of the long mags will turn the tables.
The "lighter-shorter action and barrel" that work well with the short mags would handicap the long mags. So, stretch that barrel out, stick a heavy bullet in it and the long mags will really come into their own.

 

[tahoe2]

I think the ought-six was a compromise of the 7x57 and 8x57, or "the best of both world's" with bullets as light as the lighter 7's and as heavy as the largest 8's.
over 100 years old and certainly one of the top 10 cartridges of all time (in my opinion) and would take an elephant with a 220 grn solids ( if legal).
That said I don't own one currently, but have in the past, currently have three 8mm mausers and two 7mm mausers, and others as variety...you know the rest! my .02 cents

 

[jonn5335]

Please expound on the subject - you seem to know what you are talking about. To me a popular cartridge is popular for a reason - it does what needs to be done well. I feel that there are newer cartridges but few do better than the classics - thats why after a hundred years they are as popular as ever. I am interested in your perspective - please back up your statement.

James Ruby

I'm not saying the 30-06 is a bad cartridge. The op asked if there was a cartridge better then the 30-06. If the average person had $10,000 of credit card debt and you had $1,000 in credit card debt would you think it would be better to have $10,000 worth of credit card debt because it was more popular? For instance based purely on performance a .300 SAUM with the same weight powder charge,bullet weight,barrel length and in a short action will produce 200fps+ over a 30-06. Now the .300 SAUM may not be as popular as a 30-06 but it is more efficient. Will a deer know the difference at 100 yards? Probably not, But that's not the point.

 

[JGRuby]

I'm not saying the 30-06 is a bad cartridge. The op asked if there was a cartridge better then the 30-06. If the average person had $10,000 of credit card debt and you had $1,000 in credit card debt would you think it would be better to have $10,000 worth of credit card debt because it was more popular? For instance based purely on performance a .300 SAUM with the same weight powder charge,bullet weight,barrel length and in a short action will produce 200fps+ over a 30-06. Now the .300 SAUM may not be as popular as a 30-06 but it is more efficient. Will a deer know the difference at 100 yards? Probably not, But that's not the point.

Just try to buy a box of 300 SAUM in Sumpter or Prarie city. I bet I can buy a box of 30-06. Yes it is more popular but it is also a hundred year old cartridge. I question wether the SAUM will be around in 50 years. I will never know as I wont be here then. I know that there are faster cartridges but to get that you have greater recoil, greater wear and tear on the equipment and more exspense wether you reload or not. I will stick by my 30-06 and yes the great 270. The 280 remington is kind of the cartridge that never caught on in comparison to its two siblings, its not a bad cartridge just isnt produce in too many rifles but then again either is my love the 7X57 mauser.

James Ruby

 

[jonn5335]

Just try to buy a box of 300 SAUM in Sumpter or Prarie city. I bet I can buy a box of 30-06. Yes it is more popular but it is also a hundred year old cartridge. I question wether the SAUM will be around in 50 years. I will never know as I wont be here then. I know that there are faster cartridges but to get that you have greater recoil, greater wear and tear on the equipment and more exspense wether you reload or not. I will stick by my 30-06 and yes the great 270. The 280 remington is kind of the cartridge that never caught on in comparison to its two siblings, its not a bad cartridge just isnt produce in too many rifles but then again either is my love the 7X57 mauser.

James Ruby

What does the longevity or availability of ammo in a town I never plan on buying ammo in have to to with performance? I bet they don't sell Ferrari's in prairie city or sumpter either does that mean a chevy 1500 is the highest performance vehicle? I handload anyway and no it does not cost more to reload a .300 saum the dies,shellholder,shellplate,powder,primers,bullets all have the same cost as the 06 and even the brass if you buy new. Last time I checked Newton's Law still applies so Yes, a .300 saum will kick harder and will generally wear out barrels faster then a 30-06 but that's just the price you pay for performance.

 

[JGRuby]

Performance has nothing to do with being better - pushing a bullet faster does not make a cartridge better. And yes a peice of 300SAUM brass is more expensive than a 30-06 case. If your only desire is to push bullets faster then good for you but that in mind does not make a cartridge bette. You burn more powder, you have heavier recoil where it is not needed, you have to pay more for reloading and the likely hood the cartridge will be around in the future is limited. As to ammunition availability to me that means alot.

What makes you think the SAUM are better - simply because you have one and they are new? I deer hunted with a Browning ABolt chambered in 300 WSM - in no way did I feel that I had a superior cartridge wether firing it from the bench or in the field. So where exactly does this performance come into play - what can you shoot and kill with your 300SAUM that I cannot with a 270 or 30-06. I see detractors but no real advantage - so the bullet goes a little faster but uses more powder. I dont get it.

James Ruby