Are the bad guys more proficient with their weapons than LEOs?

[Misterbill]

Totally dependent on the department.

I know I wouldn't want to get into a gun fight with anyone on my local PD or SO. They train rather a lot. Unless I got lucky and the guy was the one or two idiots that "opted out" of training.

NYPD? Bring 'em on.

 

[RVTECH]

The shoot first mentality has been mentioned and while very true there is also a nothing - to - lose mentality with a lot of the criminal element. How many times have we seen these types on documentaries saying. "I don't think I'll make it to 30"

 

[fd15k]

Totally dependent on the department.

I know I wouldn't want to get into a gun fight with anyone on my local PD or SO. They train rather a lot. Unless I got lucky and the guy was the one or two idiots that "opted out" of training.

NYPD? Bring 'em on.

How do they train ?

 

[Misterbill]

How do they train ?

Both static and dynamic, multiple scenarios at many distances including actual buildings, shooting from a squad car and more.

YPD in particular has a pretty damned good record with zero misses that I'm aware of in a spate of recent officer involved shootings and a number of high-threat scenarios where the BG was disarmed and no shots were fired when every provocation was present for golden shoots. I have nothing bad to say about either YPD or YSO when it comes to training opportunities. Some officers choose not to participate in those. Their loss.

 

[Darknight]

While it is true that many LEOs aren't all that well versed in firearms or combat shooting, the same is true for the gangsta types. I have never seen anybody that might fit the gang banger or bad guy profile at any range or shooting site that appears to be actually practicing. Almost everybody I see at the ranges is a civilian gun guy (lots of reloaders), or off-duty LEO types. Everybody friendly, knowledgeable, and ready to talk about guns or ammo.

Unfortunately you don't just have to BOLO for a guy dressed in baggy pants and a do-rag now days. More of the shootings are carried out by Dan the disgruntled insurance salesman or Bob your neighbor, who always seemed like a nice guy. Obviously this would not be true in L.A. where they have gang related shooting daily, but they don't make the national news. My point is that anyone can be a bad guy or a threat at some point, so you just have to pay attention to people in your environment where ever you are.

 

[Thebastidge]

Beware the news-oreiented evaluation. You really have to dig into what's going on to figure things out. The 24 hour news cycle gives a LOT of incorrect impressions about how bad things are. There's a term for the bias given to local news versus distant news that I can't recall at the moment, but basically, all the good news from further away gets filtered, because firemen rescuing a kitten is heart-wraming but only locally relevant, as is the case with almost all good news. Bad news is univerally interesting, if not relevant.

This kind of selection bias gives rise to a general impression that everything is going to hell everywhere but my hometown, so all THOSE PEOPLE over THERE must be evil/crazy/depraved/losers and reinforces MY PEOPLE OVER HERE are much smarter, kinder, more civilized, and better off than average, which also feeds my self-confidence in making proclamaations of HOW IT MUST BE FOR EVERYONE EVERYWHERE.

While at the same time people in NYC and California are making the same judgements about us.

 

[Riot]

Unfortunately you don't just have to BOLO for a guy dressed in baggy pants and a do-rag now days. More of the shootings are carried out by Dan the disgruntled insurance salesman or Bob your neighbor, who always seemed like a nice guy.

This is completely false. Almost all shootings in the United States are gang related or from career criminals. The only cities that this may not currently apply to are Ft. Hood, Texas and Aurora, Colorado. Active shooters make up a small percentage of total shooting victims. However, an argument can be made that most shootings in public events or at the workplace are from random acts of violence from active shooters.

 

[Darknight]

This is completely false. Almost all shootings in the United States are gang related or from career criminals. The only cities that this may not currently apply to are Ft. Hood, Texas and Aurora, Colorado. Active shooters make up a small percentage of total shooting victims. However, an argument can be made that most shootings in public events or at the workplace are from random acts of violence from active shooters.

Obviously it can't be completely false since you readily admit in your post that it doesn't apply to all shootings. You are confusing the terminology to properly describe the type of shooter you are speaking of. For instance the perpitraitor in one of the gang shootings you mentioned are not considered active shooters. Neither was the recent NY shooting; that guy only killed the people he intended to, much like the gang shootings. The point of my post was to bring to light the fact that you need to look at everyone in your environment as a potential threat at any given time. You also have to realize that not all of us live in gang ridden neighborhoods riddled with gun fire on a regular basis. So a shooter where I live may be dressed in a suit, like the NY shooter.

 

[badclam]

Obviously it can't be completely false since you readily admit in your post that it doesn't apply to all shootings. You are confusing the terminology to properly describe the type of shooter you are speaking of. For instance the perpitraitor in one of the gang shootings you mentioned are not considered active shooters. Neither was the recent NY shooting; that guy only killed the people he intended to, much like the gang shootings. The point of my post was to bring to light the fact that you need to look at everyone in your environment as a potential threat at any given time. You also have to realize that not all of us live in gang ridden neighborhoods riddled with gun fire on a regular basis. So a shooter where I live may be dressed in a suit, like the NY shooter.

I don't agree. You don't need to look at everyone in your environment as a shooter. You learn to spot potential threats. You profile based on looks and behavior in each separate environment. For instance, you can pretty readily rule out elderly woman in most situations...Gang members are always the most probably shooters statistically nationally, but in my neighborhood it might be the guy at the mall that's wearing a trench coat that should catch your attention. They teach how to spot potential shooters in any thorough self defense class.
It may not have been your intention to come off as paranoid, but "the fact that you need to look at everyone in your environment as a potential threat at any given time", sounds more paranoid and a less intuitive approach to determine potential threats.

 

[Riot]

I don't agree. You don't need to look at everyone in your environment as a shooter. You learn to spot potential threats. You profile based on looks and behavior in each separate environment. For instance, you can pretty readily rule out elderly woman in most situations...Gang members are always the most probably shooters statistically nationally, but in my neighborhood it might be the guy at the mall that's wearing a trench coat that should catch your attention. They teach how to spot potential shooters in any thorough self defense class.
It may not have been your intention to come off as paranoid, but "the fact that you need to look at everyone in your environment as a potential threat at any given time", sounds more paranoid and a less intuitive approach to determine potential threats.

Just ignore him...just another textbook warrior.

 

[Darknight]

Just ignore him...just another textbook warrior.

Who would you be talking to and about?

 

[Darknight]

I don't agree. You don't need to look at everyone in your environment as a shooter. You learn to spot potential threats. You profile based on looks and behavior in each separate environment. For instance, you can pretty readily rule out elderly woman in most situations...Gang members are always the most probably shooters statistically nationally, but in my neighborhood it might be the guy at the mall that's wearing a trench coat that should catch your attention. They teach how to spot potential shooters in any thorough self defense class.
It may not have been your intention to come off as paranoid, but "the fact that you need to look at everyone in your environment as a potential threat at any given time", sounds more paranoid and a less intuitive approach to determine potential threats.

There is usually signs that a person is having some sort of issue(s) in their life to cause them to psycholigicaly break and commit a violent act on others. Usually the people closest to them, if not family then friends, co-workers or neighbors etc. will notice these changes. It may be sudden or over time, but some will say that when they look back on it there was something off lately about him or her. So, yes you should pay attention to your teenage nephew who might be having problems or the elderly man next door that feels disrepected over a new fence. Old or young, dressed in a suit or baggy pants you should always be paying attention to people in your environment. It is not about being paranoid, but being smart. By constantly being aware of your environment and the people in it you can avoid potentialy dangerous or confrontational situations.

I know a one-armed retired firefighter who shot his neighbor over a sprinkler. As far as old people go; they have less patience and scrouples about shooting some young disrespectful person then most, just google it.
My great grandpa used to load rock salt in his shotgun shells and shoot the neighbors dog in the butt when it came over to crap in his yard...HAHA....can't do that anymore though.

 

[Mohawk13]

I Know Badclam, and He is anything but a Text book warrior....Just Saying...

 

[Riot]

I Know Badclam, and He is anything but a Text book warrior....Just Saying...

Was referring to Darknight.

 

[python287]

The difference is bad guys do not think of the consequences of shooting at anyone - even the police - however the police are always concerned if they do shoot as to what is going to happen to them, that's what causes them
to hesitate at the wrong moment.

 

[MikeE]

I just read this great book, Meditations on Violence, by Sgt Rory Miller:

<broken link removed>

 

[Darknight]

Was referring to Darknight.

Riot- you don't know me either. This forum is suppose to be about open communication amongst fellow gun enthusiasts. Why is it that we can't just respectfully disagree instead of name calling? If you look at training for LEO's and civilians at any given time there is literally thousands of philosophies on the subject. Not every department or civilian training facility trains the same. My training and experience are obviously different than your or others on this forum; but that doesn't equate me to being a textbook warrior or any other insignificant name you can think of.