AR15 Failure to Extract

[PBinWA]

What GB did you order? I have one sitting here at the house we could try tomorrow, if you like. I need to go shooting anyhow. If you want it, it's yours. Just replace it with the one you ordered.

I'll be at my shop after about 2pm in Portland if you want to come down and work on the gun, then test it tomorrow. I have snap caps to function test with before we hit the mountain.

Mike 503.819.6166

Thanks for the offer Mike. I'm off to the dentist now so today is a write off.

I ordered the YHM two part gas block with the rail on the top and bottom. With the welded on Flash hider this is pretty much the only option now.

I'm not in a hurry to resolve this but may call on you if I'm still stumped after this round of parts.

I've got a snap cap for testing function but like I said everything seemed (to my non-expert eyes) to function reasonably until a live round was in it.

I have to cut off the old gas block anyways so that will take some time. On my schedule nothing gets done too fast (other than ordering parts - which I can do while procrastinating on work).

 

[mrckd4]

Can you describe your problem in more detail?

1. When it fails to eject, is the bolt stuck closed and you have to manually pull it back to eject the shell? If yes, how hard is it to open the bolt?

or

2. Does the bolt come back after firing and the spent casing stays in the chamber?

or

3. Does the empty shell come out of the chamber, fail to eject, and then go back into the chamber?

or other???

If you can narrow down the symptom we may be able to fix pretty easily before you spend any more money. Thus, more money for accesories and toys

 

[bnr32gtr]

Can you describe your problem in more detail?

1. When it fails to eject, is the bolt stuck closed and you have to manually pull it back to eject the shell? If yes, how hard is it to open the bolt?

or

2. Does the bolt come back after firing and the spent casing stays in the chamber?

or

3. Does the empty shell come out of the chamber, fail to eject, and then go back into the chamber?

or other???

If you can narrow down the symptom we may be able to fix pretty easily before you spend any more money. Thus, more money for accesories and toys

Great questions!

To PBinWA, I'm usually available to go shooting on Sunday, Monday and Tuesdays. I'm no expert but with as many AR's as I've built, modded and refinished, I feel pretty confident that between the two of us, we could get your situation fixed!

Also, if you'd like me to order you a D-Fender extractor upgrade, just let me know. A little extra insurance can be of great comfort. They run $16+ shipping but I can just tack them onto me next order for $14 if you, or anyone else here likes.

Just happy to help. Mike

 

[PBinWA]

Can you describe your problem in more detail?

1. When it fails to eject, is the bolt stuck closed and you have to manually pull it back to eject the shell? If yes, how hard is it to open the bolt?

or

2. Does the bolt come back after firing and the spent casing stays in the chamber?

or

3. Does the empty shell come out of the chamber, fail to eject, and then go back into the chamber?

or other???

If you can narrow down the symptom we may be able to fix pretty easily before you spend any more money. Thus, more money for accesories and toys

The spent casing is still in the chamber and a live round is partially extracted and jammed between the bolt and the old shell.

 

[PBinWA]

Great questions!

To PBinWA, I'm usually available to go shooting on Sunday, Monday and Tuesdays. I'm no expert but with as many AR's as I've built, modded and refinished, I feel pretty confident that between the two of us, we could get your situation fixed!

Also, if you'd like me to order you a D-Fender extractor upgrade, just let me know. A little extra insurance can be of great comfort. They run $16+ shipping but I can just tack them onto me next order for $14 if you, or anyone else here likes.

Just happy to help. Mike

Thanks Mike, You didn't say that the D-Fender was the best. Since I already ordered the upgraded one with an o-ring I'll try it first.

 

[bnr32gtr]

Thanks Mike, You didn't say that the D-Fender was the best. Since I already ordered the upgraded one with an o-ring I'll try it first.

Good deal. I honestly think your issue is due to short stroking. Not enough gas/pressure to push the BCG back enough to fully eject the spent casing but just enough to begin to strip the next round off the top of the mag.

Keep us posted and just let me know when you want to hit the range and test out your new gas block.

 

[goneshooting]

The spent casing is still in the chamber and a live round is partially extracted and jammed between the bolt and the old shell.

well then it is probably not the gas block

do you have a small plastic insert inside your extractor spring? if not you are missing a part.

o ring should solve the problem as it serves the same purpose o rings can be purchase at home depot and ace hardware $3 for a pack but your rifle is still missing a part

carbines require a extractor insert ar15 rifles don't but it helps eldbillbo has them for sale .

it you do have the insert and add a O ring and the problem remains send it back to the manufacturer if you can't you may need a polish.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Stupid question but are you using factory ammunition or reloaded? I have worked on some AR's that had problems extracting and it was due to a slightly deformed case during reloading on a progressive press. The powder funnel came down too far and pressed the mouth of the case into the neck just slightly, not even enough to measure on a case gauge. If it's not ammunition related then is definitely sounds like its a gas problem. I check gas flow by using a silicone or rubber stopper in the chamber. Blow down the barrel and feel the back end of the upper receiver with your hand. If it is really hard to blow down the barrel then you have restricted gas flow and you need to reposition the gas block.

 

[PBinWA]

It doesn't have the o-ring but I ordered an upgraded extractor kit that does. I was wondering if that was just a basic o-ring or not but it wasn't that much to add to the cart.

I was using some yellow box Remington (UMC?) factory loads. Nothing fancy but it should be decent.

Thanks for the tip on checking the gas flow.

 

[mrckd4]

There seem to be a bunch of different ideas on this post and possibly one or more are correct. :huh:

Since the spent casing is staying in the chamber and the bolt is coming back far enough to pick up another cartridge then short-stroking is likely not your major problem (in my opinion...). It could be a contributor but if it were only a short-stroke problem then the spent cartridge should end up next to the new cartridge in the chamber area, likely still being held by the extractor with the new cartridge below it, both being rammed towards the chamber together.

I think you are on the right track looking at the extractor and ejector on the bolt. It's always difficult to diagnose something without being there during the shoot but this is what the forums are for.
Not a 'tell all' test but this may give you an indication of a problem. remove your bolt and take a spent casing and just hook the lip in the extractor claw. It should be forced to the side by the ejector (pin in the bolt face). Now, you should be able to push the spent casing upright with moderate force, thus compressing the ejector spring. When you release pressure, it should be flicked back to the side (just like being thrown out the ejection port).
If that works, now reinsert the spent cartridge into the bolt and try to pull it out of the bolt by pulling sideways both against and away from the extractor claw. The extractor should have very limited movement and it should take a fair amount of force to even move the extractor.
Lastly, put your rifle together including an empty magazine (safety counts..check twice...). Put a spent cartridge into the chamber and use the charging handle to eject the spent shell. Does it eject correctly every time? It should flick the empty out at least a couple feet.

Lastly, if all appears to be working correctly. Take it back to the range and shoot a different type of ammo. All manufacturers have problems once in a while. Just shoot singles to see if it ejects correctly and move on from there.

 

[dragonsden73]

I'm lazy today...so forgive me if this was already mentioned.

I have seen similar issues because the bolt is too dry. I use a very light amount of bearing grease on the flat spots on the bolt, as well as on the pin that goes through the bolt. If it is running dry....it will cause it not to properly function.

Check Youtube for AR15 lube instructions. Just a suggestion.

 

[PBinWA]

New comments noted. Thanks again everyone.

 

[PBinWA]

And the winner of the "Help the newbie AR builder" award goes to . . .

if the bolt is going back and leaving the brass in the chamber then it could be you want to polish the chamber

So, I upgraded the extractor, put in the H2 Buffer, put on the YHM Gas Block cleaned and lubed the bolt and I still couldn't eject the shell.

I had to use pliers to pull it out and it was tight. I looked closer at it and noticed that the extractor had ripped the rim off the case.

I went and dug out the old brass and sure enough they had the same issue. I think I had thought they just got wrecked when the other shell was jammed into them but I'm also not the sharpest stick in the bunch.

So I hooked up a brush to my drill and polished the chamber until the fired shells would go in and out smoothly by hand.

Took the gun out and ran 60 flawless rounds through it.

Thanks goneshooting! And thanks to everyone else that offered advice. I'm sure many of you would have caught this when you saw the brass.

Even though I didn't need to throw parts at it - it was still a good learning experience.

 

[PBinWA]

Oh yeah, the H2 Buffer is nice it really seems to slam the bolt shut with a more solid feel to it.