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Appleseed Event and I-594

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by twoclones, Jul 22, 2014.

  1. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Appleseed fans likely realize that these marksmanship training events are frequently held on private property. Likewise, instructors commonly bring firearms for loaning to participants {students} if they should need a gun or even need a gun with a shorter/longer stock.

    During the last Appleseed event I attended, I loaned one of my personal rifles to another participant. Under I-594, this neighborly act would be a crime.

    http://appleseedinfo.org/

    I-594_Loan.jpg
     
  2. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    No it wouldn't
     
  3. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Yes it would. Loaning a firearm would require the NICS background check, the mental health record check by the Sheriff or Police Chief (up to a 30 day wait), and the 10 day mandatory wait period.
     
  4. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    (
     
  5. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    As I said in the original post, Appleseed events are often held on private property. The exemption does not apply on private property.
     
  6. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    Where does it say no private property ?? It says organized event.
     
  7. ocarolan

    ocarolan Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Not related, but at your last event, did you confirm the other participant was also a Washington resident?

    Technically GCA 68 restricts loan of firearms between residents of other states. The ATF previously suggested target shooting is not considered a sporting purpose under GCA 68. A lot of ranges and firearm schools seem to ignore that of course, like the machine gun places in Vegas.
     
  8. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    If that isn't and sporting purpose, I am not sure what is.
     
  9. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    An Appleseed event on private property is
    not at an established shooting range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction.
    It's not at a competition.
    It's not at a performance.
    The loan I made was not to a spouse.

    I-594 would make my neighborly act a crime.
     
  10. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    I did. He was a permanent resident alien (no alien gun card required).
     
  11. timac

    timac Loading Magazines! Well-Known Member

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    All that criteria must be met to be in compliance, or you're a felon. Forget about shooting in the woods with friends, you will not meet any of this criteria.
    But it is all for a judge to decide your fate when you violate 594, if it were to become law. The laws already written are not so muddy or filled with entrapment's
     
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  12. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    For this very reason, we need to discuss these hypothetical situations to educate ourselves and allow us to educate others. Particularly those who think I-594 is about background checks and don't realize how deeply it infringes on something as simple as letting your friend shoot your pistol while in the mountains.
     
  13. timac

    timac Loading Magazines! Well-Known Member

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    594 is all about control and future complete registration. It has nothing to with protecting society.
     
    WilliamIV and twoclones like this.
  14. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    Actually SEC9 states it is a misdemeanor unless you have been found guilty of SEC3 previously.
     
  15. ocarolan

    ocarolan Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Here is the ATF opinion I was referencing. Update: I found the study online and posted the complete citation. This study was defining it with respect to importation, but is the closest I could find.

    In particular, the working group examined participation in and popularity of practical shooting events as governed by formal rules, such as those of the United States Practical Shooting Association (USPSA) and International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC), to determine whether it was appropriate to consider these events a “sporting purpose” under § 925(d)(3). While the number of members reported for USPSA is similar to the membership for other shotgun shooting organizations, the working group ultimately determined that it was not appropriate to use this shotgun study to determine whether practical shooting is “sporting” under § 925(d)(3).

    ...Therefore, the working group believes that a more thorough and complete assessment is necessary before ATF can consider practical shooting as a generally recognized sporting purpose.

    The working group agreed with the previous studies in that the activity known as “plinking” is “primarily a pastime” ..."


    So it's not totally clear if a non-traditional match or class like Appleseed would qualify, assuming ATF uses the same definition as their 925(d)(3) study of "hunting, trap, and skeet".

    For reference, here is a letter to the ATF opposing this study, which cites case law on sporting purposes also:
    http://www.wjopc.com/site/firearms/GOF_ATFComments.pdf

    Obviously if this is not legal, the ATF is choosing not to enforce it. As mentioned loans and rentals to non-residents is very common at many shooting ranges.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
  16. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    Besides, why are you wasting time telling us, you think that anybody here is going to vote for I 594.
     
  17. timac

    timac Loading Magazines! Well-Known Member

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    See, muddy waters. I know there are many others ways 594 will land you in jail a felon.
     
  18. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    Because of the professed gun owners who have told me they will vote for I-594 to keep guns away from criminals. If those gun owners do not see how this Initiative will turn them into criminals for leaving their 17 year old alone in his deer stand, there is a good chance this will pass.
     
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  19. timac

    timac Loading Magazines! Well-Known Member

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    Very true. Traitors to America and our way of life come in many forms. Sadly the gun owners that support 594, will be the ones or there children the law ensnares. The criminals will continue not to follow the law and roam freely
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2014
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  20. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    I know this isn't directed towards me, but it's important that all of us be educated and educate others. You're right, it's not necessary to preach to the choir, but if the choir is to go out and be advocates, they need to know the story.
     
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