Anybody think Oregons Military Recuting centers should Arm themselves???

[ARKLITE881South]

I see other states implementing this procedure. I feel this was an act of terrorism even though the sitting pres does not want to admit it. Its time we start an email campaign to our reps, state/federal/county to make sure our military personnel can and will be able to defend themselves if necessary. Lets face it, they are sitting ducks, unarmed. unprotected, and even announcing ''this is a gun free zone'' or ''A weapon free zone''via a sign on the front door. Take the time to drop your rep's a email requesting these recruiting stations can protect themselves from future attacks. The governor can do this if she wants. Our military personnel live and die to protect us, now its time we demand that they have the right to protect themselves. It only makes sense. Besides didn't oregon declare a "gun emergency''? Besides isn't it ironic the Social Security offices have armed personnel in them?

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[natef]

Something that you might have seen implemented is that local training groups and militia teams are starting to stand watch for them in the interim. I know that we have teams that will be standing watch at 3 different locations throughout the next couple of weeks. We are in contact with the local Police departments as well as the Sheriff department and in constant contact with the recruiting center that we are outside of.

If you see some people standing outside of these centers say hi. We just want to make sure they are safe inside no matter what. If you want to get involved let me know. We do require you to have a CCW as well as pass a basic vetting process before we will want you out there. You will need to be able to legally carry concealed. We do NOT want to have a bunch of people standing around with full battle rattle.

There is no reason that the military men and women at these posts should be disarmed. But while they are it becomes the citizens of the communities that are around those recruitment centers jobs to stand in the gap.

 

[etrain16]

I would prefer that 'gun free zones' didn't exist anywhere. Advertising that you are disarmed is simply foolish. As for our men and women in uniform, they should absolutely be allowed to be armed. Some suggest a certain rank before allowing regular carry, okay, I guess if that's necessary, so be it. But how can we not trust our armed forces to be armed, so they can protect themselves and others?

As for average Joe out front, it's not a bad idea, but consider this - what if one of those folks standing out front ends up being a radicalized citizen, now they just have to wait for the right moment to turn around and open fire. There is no guarantee that how someone looks - their style of dress, their facial hair or the color of their skin, will give away who they really are. Some kind of background check might be a good idea, just so we can have a reasonable assurance that we didn't just plant a 'sleeper' in front of a target rich environment.

 

[natef]

As for average Joe out front, it's not a bad idea, but consider this - what if one of those folks standing out front ends up being a radicalized citizen, now they just have to wait for the right moment to turn around and open fire. There is no guarantee that how someone looks - their style of dress, their facial hair or the color of their skin, will give away who they really are. Some kind of background check might be a good idea, just so we can have a reasonable assurance that we didn't just plant a 'sleeper' in front of a target rich environment.

I absolutely understand your concern. Trust and believe that before I let just anyone stand watch with my guys that they are vetted very well. My team is put through a 1 year process before even being allowed to be assigned to something like this. In that year we do everything from full background check, to requiring CCW, and a full Social media check. also you get to know people/ their families well in a year. Then we also do all sorts of required training from medical, handgun, rifle, PSP, watch standing, Vehicle Ops, you name it. Everything above board and in the full light of any local LEO that would like to join us. The chances of a "sleeper" making it into our ranks is very very slim.

Anyone that we had out there with us on this operation will have to have a valid CCW and will be talked with and interviewed off site before we ever stand watch together. The ABSOLUTE LAST thing I want to do is introduce a wolf in sheep's clothing to this situation. But thanks for the concern. If you have more questions I am happy to help.

 

[etrain16]

I absolutely understand your concern. Trust and believe that before I let just anyone stand watch with my guys that they are vetted very well. My team is put through a 1 year process before even being allowed to be assigned to something like this. In that year we do everything from full background check, to requiring CCW, and a full Social media check. also you get to know people/ their families well in a year. Then we also do all sorts of required training from medical, handgun, rifle, PSP, watch standing, Vehicle Ops, you name it. Everything above board and in the full light of any local LEO that would like to join us. The chances of a "sleeper" making it into our ranks is very very slim.

Anyone that we had out there with us on this operation will have to have a valid CCW and will be talked with and interviewed off site before we ever stand watch together. The ABSOLUTE LAST thing I want to do is introduce a wolf in sheep's clothing to this situation. But thanks for the concern. If you have more questions I am happy to help.

That's good to know. My real concern is not someone who is part of a group such as yours, but rather the guy who just shows up, of his own volition, without anyone to at least check him out first.

I like what groups like yours has to offer in this respect.

 

[natef]

I like what groups like yours has to offer in this respect.

This is honestly right up the mission statement of what we are about. Protecting those that cant do it themselves, wither that's because of their own physical issues, monetary, or in this case over regulations.

There is an absolute stigma and stereotype of what groups like ours are about. most of it is simply incorrect. We are your neighbors, friends, heck even your pastors. We are NOT the stereotypical 80's militia in the woods in woodland cammo, secret squirrel anti-government types. We (NW Spectres) understand that the time for talking is NEVER over and you need to work in the system and with the community to make a difference.

This isn't to say that we don't get contacted by all sorts of off the wall people with other ideals. We just do NOT offer them training. If I cant trust your with my wife and kids I don't want you around PERIOD.

I'm curious, when you say "in this respect" what is it about groups like mine that you don't like what they have to offer? I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just want to understand and clear up any misconceptions (since that's what is usually the problem people have with groups like mine).

 

[etrain16]

I'm curious, when you say "in this respect" what is it about groups like mine that you don't like what they have to offer? I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just want to understand and clear up any misconceptions (since that's what is usually the problem people have with groups like mine).

I wasn't meaning to imply that this was the only area I would see your group having value, just referring only to the topic at hand. It just read differently in my mind than it did in yours.

 

[natef]

No worries etrain16. but back to the topic at hand. As prior service myself it is a worry of mine that they are unarmed. Until our Governor gains the foresight to do her job and protect the people of this state (especially the ones who protect our way of life) I don't see any way around citizens stepping up and filling the gap.

I assume that most people on this forum would consider themselves to be something of a sheepdog. A defender of those that need it. Maybe its just me projecting myself on the masses of firearm owners and other patriots but I would hope that's how they are. There is a time and place for everything and in my opinion this is the time and place to protect our fellow Americans and Protectors of our freedoms. If it was me in that office I would want to have good Americans standing watch while I was able to go about my business.

If anyone who is willing to submit to the vetting process and has an ACTIVE CCW would like to help just let me know. Also there is a structure in place before you just go and show up. Every thing is being done with support of the local LEO and Sheriff. Just showing up and standing around is not the right way to do it.

 

[IheartSig]

There is something inherently idiotic about members of a country's own Military needing it's civilian population to be volunteer bodyguards. Yup! THAT can only end well
I can see the new door sign now....
.... " This office is patolled at random, by your local, un-vetted Mall Ninja "

Only a mentally defective liberal would;
1- be alarmed that military personel, on the job and in uniform would be armed.
2- expect someone wanting to inquire about enlisting would be afraid of guns.
3- believe that, "gun free" would work though "robber free" or "rape free" won't.

Of course arm recruiters, MPs, guards...and other trained base personel.
Otherwise, only the dis-affected, bitter, nutjobs will be armed...just like in the real world.

I read today that two of the weapons recovered from the scene belonged to the Marines. One was used. You can bet that regardless of regulations there will be one in damn near every office today. The recruiters don't need civilians to protect them. Certainly not militia members.

 

[natef]

I read today that two of the weapons recovered from the scene belonged to the Marines. One was used. You can bet that regardless of regulations there will be one in damn near every office today. The recruiters don't need civilians to protect them.

That's one way to look at it. I can tell you from personal experience yesterday after standing watch at the recruiting center in Beaverton that they were very happy to have us. several times we talked with the recruiters inside and each time they shook our hands and thanked us for being there. Also of note. yesterday they received from above new "no firearms in this building" stickers and were required to put them up on the doors leading in. They were instructed yesterday AGAIN that they are not to have firearms with them. I understand your thinking IheartSig but they are between a rock and a hard place. As a veteran myself I remember some of the absolutely asinine rules and orders that are passed down and at the end of the day you HAVE to follow them, even when they don't make sense.

So if they aren't allowed to carry or have a firearm for protection, just based on what you are saying in this post (as I know nothing about you) I gather that you could care less about the safety of these recruiters. Do YOU carry a firearm? Do YOU want to be safe? why would we not allow them the same protection.

If no one else is willing to stand in the gap (this includes you apparently from your comments here) why not the militia members. the militia is nothing more than you and me. its the civilian population. Its men like myself that are willing to continue the training we received in the military to prepare to protect ourselves and our families no matter the situation. The world would be a better place if people looked out for one another more. not hide in the shadows and say things like "others will do it" or "that's what police are for" have you seen police response time lately? They are good men and women on the police force but just look at the numbers and you see that they cant be there immediately when something is happening. they can only respond. Also on that note. LEO has been extremely thankful that we are doing what we are doing. Remember, we are not standing out side of these locations in full battle rattle. this is a concealed carry only vetted members, no room for error situation. You are of course entitled to you opinions, but I would prefer to make sure they are safe then leave them to have something like this happen again

 

[natef]

for some reason it wont let me remove my reply to the second quote on that last post. it just includes it as part of the quote....

 

[RicInOR]

As more information comes in, we'll get a better picture.

"
NOT JUST PASSIVE VICTIMS: Service Members Risked Lives During Chattanooga Attack, Officials Say. "Marines and sailors risked their lives for one another in Chattanooga last week, trying to distract the gunman who assaulted a naval center here, helping people scale a fence to reach safety and returning fire at the attacker, law enforcement officials said on Wednesday. Some of the five servicemen who were fatally wounded effectively sacrificed themselves during the assault on Thursday, diverting the gunman away from a larger group of potential victims, according to a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation into the killings. . . . At a news conference here, the F.B.I. confirmed that at least one service member shot at the attacker, but did not say whether he managed to wound the gunman, Mohammod Abdulazeez, who was killed minutes later in a shootout with the Chattanooga police."

I thought they weren't allowed to have guns.
Posted at 11:09 pm by Glenn Reynolds"


Bold high-lites were mine.

 

[IheartSig]

That's one way to look at it. I can tell you from personal experience yesterday after standing watch at the recruiting center in Beaverton that they were very happy to have us. several times we talked with the recruiters inside and each time they shook our hands and thanked us for being there. Also of note. yesterday they received from above new "no firearms in this building" stickers and were required to put them up on the doors leading in. They were instructed yesterday AGAIN that they are not to have firearms with them. I understand your thinking IheartSig but they are between a rock and a hard place. As a veteran myself I remember some of the absolutely asinine rules and orders that are passed down and at the end of the day you HAVE to follow them, even when they don't make sense.

So if they aren't allowed to carry or have a firearm for protection, just based on what you are saying in this post (as I know nothing about you) I gather that you could care less about the safety of these recruiters. Do YOU carry a firearm? Do YOU want to be safe? why would we not allow them the same protection.

I think you are assuming a whole lot there man. I'm a Vet as well, I even did a stint in recruiting in Southern Oregon. Don't try to mix words. I said they don't need civilians to protect them and they don't need YOU. If you think there were no guns in that building you're fooling yourself. I never said I could care less about the safety of recruiters, either. You said that. I said they don't need ....you. They are able to protect themselves. You make them out to be little lost lambs that need protection. Stop trying to play hero.

And as for this lunacy

If no one else is willing to stand in the gap (this includes you apparently from your comments here) why not the militia members. the militia is nothing more than you and me. its the civilian population. Its men like myself that are willing to continue the training we received in the military to prepare to protect ourselves and our families no matter the situation. The world would be a better place if people looked out for one another more. not hide in the shadows and say things like "others will do it" or "that's what police are for" have you seen police response time lately? They are good men and women on the police force but just look at the numbers and you see that they cant be there immediately when something is happening. they can only respond. Also on that note. LEO has been extremely thankful that we are doing what we are doing. Remember, we are not standing out side of these locations in full battle rattle. this is a concealed carry only vetted members, no room for error situation. You are of course entitled to you opinions, but I would prefer to make sure they are safe then leave them to have something like this happen again.

Forgive me if I ask, how was "the gap" in Beaverton? Did you guys trudge bravely unto the breach once more? There are real people dying and putting it all out there every day, Police, Firemen, Military members. Paramedics the list goes on and on. Real first responders who are trained and evaluated not simply "vetted" by Mike and his brother Daryl. Leave the law enforcement and military work to the professionals man. I don't need a nut job militia member capping of a ND and hitting my kid as they are riding their bike by.

Oregon has NO constitutional militia. That pretty much means that every "group" (and from the internet pages there seems to be an awful lot of Oregon "militias") running around here calling themselves a "militia" is nothing more than a bunch of guys who either were never in the military or are out now and wish they were still in part time.

So hey guy, if you want to pound your chest and be a militia member go for it, meet with your buddies and chase rabbits through the woods or what ever. Just don't pretend that you are filling a need that cant be met by the men and women you are "protecting". And don't insinuate that people that don't feel the need to join your cause and hang out with possible future Unabomber's are somehow not concerned /able/prepared to protect themselves or their loved ones / communities. You aren't special because you play war. There is a metric bubblegum ton of veterans in this state, combat veterans, who don't feel the need to play GI Joe with frank from accounting.

and P.S. I'm not even opposed to the idea of a "organized and well trained militia". Take a page from the Texas playbook.

 

[Dave Workman]

Chattanooga puts gun-free zones in political crosshairs

If there is one positive result of the terrorist wannabe attack that took the lives of four Marines and a Navy petty officer one week ago today in Chattanooga, it is Tuesday's introduction of legislation by Kansas Republican Sen. Jerry Moran that would repeal bans on military personnel being armed at military installations.


<broken link removed>

 

[natef]

I think you assume a lot too. I am a combat veteran with multiple deployments. We don't need to turn this into a d*ck measuring contest.

Last time I looked they are called first RESPONDERS....as in responding to a situation.. While they are trained and evaluated, that doesn't mean that they are there to help all the time. (see the link below)
http://www.portlandoregon.gov/cbo/article/521723
I'm not trying to discredit any first responders or their training or their ability. All I'm saying is that they cant be there every time when YOU or I need them. with a 5 min response time on the good side that's pretty late response to most situations.

lets take this a step further. You make all sorts of assumptions here about the level of person and training that is involved. I have seen several LEO's join us and be amazed that they aren't receiving that level of training. When is the last time you heard of a police department doing PSP? they don't have the time or budget for it. Do they practice drawing from a concealed holster often? If you ask the friends of mine that are current LEO that's a pretty solid NO. Lets phrase that differently, Do you carry a concealed handgun? if you do why? are you active military or Law enforcement? are you a professional? How do I know your not going to pop an ND into my kid as he walks down the road?

I never assumed that they were unarmed or unable to protect themselves. I just know that when they are reaching out to us (yup you read that right) that it would behoove us to show up and help. But I'm sure since you were the one to receive the emails and phone calls about showing up you already know that.

I'm sorry if that doesn't fit into your view of what a "militia" team is. remember not every unit is running around in the woods in woodland cammo chasing rabbits. some of them are actually organized, well regulated, trained and involved in community outreach. some of them do things like paint elderly peoples houses when they cant afford or physically do it. some of them work with the local police departments to help out where they need us (and are actually called upon more often than you would think, especially as most of us are involved in search and rescue). some of them devote time and money to helping people who need it. sorry if that doesn't fit your minds image of Unabomber types out in the woods being dumb a**'s. We check out anyone wanting to join us very well. Like you we almost all have kids and wives that we would not endanger with being wrapped up in something illegal. We as a unit hope to never have to use the skills we learned in the military and continued training. I would much rather help people in the community than "play war".

 

[IheartSig]

Ok man. We can agree to disagree I suppose. I think that it's important however that we draw a destinction between being a combat veteran and having credibility/credentials to insert yourself as an armed security unit within a community.

I don't care what your background is, you are still a private citizen who no one knows, working under the organization with zero checks and balances in place, inserting your also unknown memberahip into public areas with firearms and intent to use them based on what ever training you may or may not have had. Who knows really, because you don't answer to DPSST or Federal guidelines in terms of ROEs and response to Threat. You are civilians entering the community as civilians pretending to be law enforcement or security without any credibility, authority or credentials.

 

[natef]

Agree to disagree I guess.

I can see your point though. there are people out there that are not like me or my group. there are people who shouldn't guard a light post. those are the ones I worry about.

Also, just a little note on that last part. several of us hold PMC clearances and use them. We cant risk that as its how we like to make our livelihood. If you are looking for a check and balance to not do something dumb or to have someone to answer too it doesn't get much higher than that.