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ak 47 or 74 for appleseed?

Discussion in 'Events & Get Togethers' started by stjohnwayne, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. stjohnwayne

    stjohnwayne Sykesville, MD New Member

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    Hi everyone, I'm a newbie on the forum. I'm an inexperienced shooter, trying to learn.

    I am hoping to attend an appleseed project weekend on the east coast (not sure which one yet, just planning in the works). I like the approach of rifleman being a basic skill, not to mention tied to our history.

    I have a question, and I know that there was some mention of this on another thread about appleseed:

    Would I be better off attending this event with an AK-47 (wasr) or AK-74 (tantal)? I know their site says it's the shooter not the bullet, and I know ammo for the 47 is much more available than for the 74, so on the one hand I would like to bring the ak47. On the other hand, the ak-74 is supposedly exponentially more accurate.

    I'm going to purchase one or the other, have found dealers with models that are basically the same price. I know the ammo for the 74 is less easy to get, so I would love to just go with the 47 but I'm on the fence. If it's just not accurate enough, I can go with the 74 and just order ammo from whatever is available. But I want to make the right pick.

    Help me get my head on straight here, folks. Which one is better for appleseed? Will the ak-47 wasr get me that practical accuracy? Will it get me that 210 on the AQT? Or should I opt for the ak-74 tantal?

    Thanks for the help.
     
  2. stjohnwayne

    stjohnwayne Sykesville, MD New Member

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    I should also point out that the tantal isn't the only option for the ak-74 (there's bulgarian models available too), and all of them are century arms imports anyway.
     
  3. Benny503

    Benny503 Grants Pass Well-Known Member

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    Get the one with plenty of ammo available. Beside using it in appleseed project you can take it out for target shooting and practice using it effective, those can cause you around thounsand of rounds..... I say go for the ak47.
     
  4. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    AK74 surplus ammo is 1/3rd the cost of AK47 ammo.
     
  5. stjohnwayne

    stjohnwayne Sykesville, MD New Member

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    Yeah, basically what I've seen so far is that ammo for the 47 is more widely available, but the 74's a bit cheaper, perhaps because you basically have to get it in bulk.

    While we're on the subject, does anyone have an opinion on variants of the ak-74, specifically the bulgarian, the polish tantal, or the romanian wasr? Again, all 3 are imported by century arms, but I know the tantal was theoretically supposed to be an improvement on the ak-74... basically which of the 3 is the best performing, most rugged/reliable? For example, with the tantal, would I be able to get spare parts from other ak-74 variants, or only the tantal?
     
  6. onearmedswordsman

    onearmedswordsman Hillsboro, OR Member

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    I am not too familiar with Appleseed program. But, I suppose there will be some prone shooting involved. 30rd mags may not work well. There are 20rd (AK47) Hungarians that might be more suitable. Any other thoughts on this? I know you could work around this issue with a bipod but I don't think they are allowed in Appleseed.

    My $0.02
     
  7. stjohnwayne

    stjohnwayne Sykesville, MD New Member

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    Well here's the thing, and I don't mean to sound like a jerk. Weren't the 30 rd mag's designed for soviet soldiers, who would presumably be able to shoot from prone position?

    My buddy is an officer with the 82nd, talked to him yesterday and he said he didn't see why a 30 rd mag (even one a bit longer than an AR mag) would stop you from shooting prone, at least not the way they're trained to do it.
     
  8. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    You'll be shooting about 500 rounds over the weekend, which is why a semi-auto .22 is the recommended rifle for Appleseeds. Its cheap to shoot. But. You can shoot anything you want. I've heard of folks using Enfields and Mosins. I showed up at my first Appleseed with an M1 Garand, but we were on private property and the .30 cal rounds were really chewing up the berm, so I switched to the .22.

    You won't really need a 30 round magazine either. You'll be shooting in ten round segments, and some drills require loading one magazine with two rounds, shooting, then reloading with a magazine of eight. Appleseed training techniques have their origins in military high power training, and this will make sense when you do it.

    Good luck, you'll really enjoy yourself.

    Keith
     
  9. stjohnwayne

    stjohnwayne Sykesville, MD New Member

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    yeah, it's more just because so far I've been unable to find any mags UNDER 30 rounds for the ak-74... who knew, haha.
     
  10. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    MY buddy has a 74 and that thing is a tack driver (well, close to)

    In addition the AK74 ballistics for long range shooting are far superior to the AK47

    AK47 is basically a 300 yard weapon

    AK74 is a 500 yard weapon

    Since you're shooting to a real or theoretical 500 yards, the 74 is the best choice. Not to mention the ammo costs!

    Look into one of the peep sights for these guns. Stock AK sights really suck for long range shooting. Contact these guys and find out if their AK47 unit will fit an AK74 http://www.mojosights.com/
     
  11. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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  12. NoOne

    NoOne Puget Sound Active Member

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    Blitzkrieg,

    With the price of both ammo and rifles, I have thought that purchasing an AK-74 and a couple of cases of ammo would be a good idea. What kind of AK-74 did your friend have that was so accurate? Do you think his rifle was a fluke, or are most of the AK-74's similarly accurate?

    Thanks!
     
  13. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I think his 74 is a ban era WASR with no muzzle threads. I hear the Tantals and Romanians are very accurate. 74s are more accurate than AKs due to the projectile design as well as tighter tolerances. Classic Arms has a great price on Tantals with the folder stock. About 3/4 down this page
    http://www.classicarms.us/

    Just below it is this model with new barrel
     
  14. raftman

    raftman Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The only one I'd truly avoid at all cost is the Tantal. The Century Arms variety is notorious for keyholing issues. This is very widely and commonly reported. Even though it's not an expensive gun, why gamble when you can use the same amount of money for a gun that doesn't have that problem. The Bulgarian AK-74's tend to be much more highly regarded. I've bought one not long ago and have put a couple hundred rounds through it so far. Problem free. The 74 is supposed to have roughly twice the effective range of the 47, but I have yet to shoot the 74 at a long enough range to notice the difference between it and my 47. If you are talking about 500 yard distances, as someone suggested, then yeah I'd opt for the 74.
     
  15. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Haven't heard that about the Tantals, but since they have used bores maybe that is the reason. If the Tantals are made by Century then I would avoid them on general principles..
     
  16. New York

    New York Gresham Member

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    I second what trainsktg wrote. If you want to bring an AK for your second rifle, then that's fine. But bring a semi-auto .22 rifle with 600 rounds of ammo and a military sling.

    Here's a list that some of the instructors and I created as a guideline.

    Have fun!

    New York


    What to Bring to an Appleseed Shoot

    There’s a lot of info out there on the internet about what to bring to an Appleseed Shoot. If you brought it all, you’d likely end up spending half the day setting up and half the day taking it back to your vehicle.

    So, here’s the minimalist version of what to bring:

    1. A teachable attitude. Remember, we’re all here to learn…even the instructors.
    2. A rifle: If you are able, try to get your rifle zeroed at 25 meters (82 feet). And if you have an extra rifle, bring that as well…just in case something breaks on your first rifle). Optics are welcome, but of course, iron sights are better. The best primary rifle to bring is a .22 semi-auto, magazine-fed rifle, i.e. the Ruger 10/22 or the Marlin 795. But we will help you work with what you have.
    3. Ammunition: 300 rounds per day, per shooter.
    4. Magazines for your rifle. Two 10-round magazines are the minimum, but four or five is better.
    5. A USGI M1-Garand Sling. They are available at the Appleseed store on the website. http://www.appleseedstore.flyingcart.com/ They can also be found at surplus stores, gun shows, or online for around $10-$15 dollars.
    6. Shooting mat or ground cover of some type. Whether a shooting mat or a 3’ x 6’ carpet remnant, you’re going to spend a lot of time in the dirt. It’s always nicer if there’s something between you and the dirt…especially something that doesn’t absorb water that easily.
    7. A shooting jacket is a good thing to bring. If you don’t have one, a long sleeved sweatshirt is also good.
    8. Pad for elbows: If you don’t have a shooting jacket, bring soft elbow pads or some type of pad. These aren’t strictly necessary, but they will make your day more enjoyable.
    9. A small notebook and pen. Something to take notes with on sight adjustments, or history, or the name of a book, or a company that provides xyz tool.
    10. Eye and Ear protection. Eye protection is mandatory. And we recommend using both plugs and earmuffs, but ultimately, it’s your hearing to keep.
    11. Food and water. While there are usually restaurants or fast food places close by, it’s always easier to brown bag it and eat lunch with the rest of us, plus that leaves more time for history lessons and for shooting. Some type of snack food (fruit, cereal bars, something along those lines) to keep your energy up through the day. From personal experience, don’t eat too heavy of a lunch, you’ll probably regret it.
    12. WATER. It’s important enough that it’s worth repeating. It’s very easy to get dehydrated out on the line.
    13. Assorted sundries: Sunscreen, medications, pain relievers, i.e. ibuprofen or Advil. A folding/camping chair. Tools to work on/adjust your rifle. Staple gun and staples if you have one. A sharpie pen. Something to cover your rifle with if the weather is not very nice.
    14. Cleaning supplies: Especially a rifle bore snake. (You’d be amazed at the amount of dust and grit that can blow into the action of your rifle).
    15. Proper Clothing and footwear. We will shoot regardless of the weather. So wear clothing and footwear that is appropriate for the weather we are having. You might bring extra clothing/socks, etc.
    16. Finally, come prepared to have fun, get a little dirty, learn a lot about shooting, and about the important day this nation was born, April 19, 1775.
     
  17. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    It was also the day one of my ancestors died from wounds got on the Green. Same exact name as my father. A day of glory for the colonists, and what they created is worth restoring by whatever means required. Can't wait to attend an Appleseed and we are getting geared up for it!
     
  18. unionguy

    unionguy Portland Active Member

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    I wouldn't go with the Tantal, you want something with a real stock so you can learn how to get an effective cheek weld.
     
  19. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Like that's going to happen with any AK ! :bluelaugh:
     
  20. ikari2_2000

    ikari2_2000 Seattle, WA Member

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    The 5.45 is more accurate than a 7.62 at longer distances because of its light weight and high velocity, thus giving it a flatter flight path. Since the AQT will be conducted at 25 meters, it will not matter whether you go with a 47 or 74. What will make a difference in accuracy will be the build of the rifle, type of trigger, and sights. I have a WASR10 with a single stage trigger and an Arsenal SGL-20 with a dual stage trigger. The WASR compare to the SGL, it needs more refining. From my experience with the two, the SGL is more accurate on the 25 meter AK zero target than the WASR. If it had a peep sight, it would be consistently accurate. So back to the 74. Since it's virtually the same rifle, just smaller round, you will experience the same thing unless the 3 things I brought up are addressed.

    I am presuming your budget is in the $500 range. If you're going for the 47, I would recommend going with any of the WASR10/63 or Romy G. If you're going 74, I would recommend going with any of the Bulgarian from InRange, Lancaster, or TGI.


    I will be attending the Appleseed Project with an AR, but will be bringing the SGL just for kicks.