A primer on Shoot to Kill

[OregonRider]

Once again, I was reviewing some of my shooting bookmarks. I just re-read this article on why I carry. It's like Krav Maga training: the bad guy wants to kill you. You should feel the same about him.
Tactical Pistol Training: Shoot to Kill

Read More

 

[bradsteen]

That concept doesn't play well in court, which is where any self defense situation will likely end up. Shoot to stop the threat. Whether the threat disengages and runs away or expires is irrelevant so long as the threatening behavior has been stopped.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I always shoot to slappycakes.

 

[thorborg]

I found in getting older;
Aw shoot! Has become more frequent.

 

[Stomper]

I always shoot to slappycakes.

Poor 'ol Slappycakes.... he was the top of his class at clown-college!



We will miss him.

 

[DangerDog]

Sure always stop the threat, but make sure they're stopped forever.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Poorly quoting Jeff Cooper from memory and trying to capture his fondness for the Royal 'we':

"We don't shoot to kill, we shoot to STOP! If we only shot to kill we would have a smaller, lighter and quieter tranquilizer dart pistol filed with the AIDS virus. We shoot to STOP. And if, as a result of their own choices, they die, so be it. We hold no strong opinions on the matter."

 

[titsonritz]

Don't want to but will in a heartbeat.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Do what it takes to avoid a threat :

Situational awareness...
Cultivate an alert , "Don't F with me..and I won't F with you " demeanor...however do not become the aggressor.
Cross a street , place a barrier between you and the threat / potential threat....
Go someplace else...you have nothing to "prove"...
Don't go to places where trouble is / likely to happen....
Don't hang out with "problem children"....

In any event...
Do what you need to do , in order to survive and or stop the threat....
Do so swiftly and surely...however do not use or do more than is necessary to stop the threat...
If they chose to not threaten you , then they might be alive or unharmed.

Based on my experience of self defense you will :
Be second guessed / What if'd / What about'd ..all by people who weren't there and have no real idea about you or the situation....
Have things assumed about you and your actions...
Asked the same questions , all phrased slightly differently over and over...

Answer any questions with the 3 "C's"...
Clearly...
Completely...
Concisely...

Andy

 

[wired]

Poorly quoting Jeff Cooper from memory and trying to capture his fondness for the Royal 'we':

"We don't shoot to kill, we shoot to STOP! If we only shot to kill we would have a smaller, lighter and quieter tranquilizer dart pistol filed with the AIDS virus. We shoot to STOP. And if, as a result of their own choices, they die, so be it. We hold no strong opinions on the matter."

Never could stand that guy.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Never could stand that guy.

I was a big fan of him back in the day, IIRC it was about the same time frame as when I though Ayn Rand made some interesting arguments

 

[Member 45541]

Don't hang out with "problem children"....

I may have to leave this site for a spell!

 

[Koda]

Once again, I was reviewing some of my shooting bookmarks. I just re-read this article on why I carry. It's like Krav Maga training: the bad guy wants to kill you. You should feel the same about him.
Tactical Pistol Training: Shoot to Kill

horrible advice that doesnt do gun rights any good.

" I tell my clients that there is only one reason to carry a gun and that is to kill people! If that is not your reason, then don't carry a f#cking gun."

Darn near close to walking out of that classroom.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

@HA556
Or Stop listens to AC/DC...love their song Problem Child....
Andy

 

[monkeybutler]

I was a big fan of him back in the day, IIRC it was about the same time frame as when I though Ayn Rand made some interesting arguments

Hah. There's a reason why Rand was rejected with laughter by any serious philosopher in her era.

 

[RVTECH]

I tell my clients that there is only one reason to carry a gun and that is to kill people!

This is an incredibly unhinged statement. 'To kill people' is generalized and in no way
reflects on rational and pragmatic aspects of carrying a gun for self defense - or any reason for that matter.

If 'to kill people' is the 'cornerstone' for his training and HE actually believes this he is expressing some form of psychotic paranoia. Also 'assigning' an acronym to his premise of 'Shoot to kill' (S2K) is equally strange.
It's as though he is trying to create a 'mindset' so to speak.

He is teaching the wrong thing and some may eventually find themselves in trouble if they 'embrace' his training.

 

[Koda]

This is an incredibly unhinged statement. 'To kill people' is generalized and in no way
reflects on rational and pragmatic aspects of carrying a gun for self defense - or any reason for that matter.

If 'to kill people' is the 'cornerstone' for his training and HE actually believes this he is expressing some form of psychotic paranoia. Also 'assigning' an acronym to his premise of 'Shoot to kill' (S2K) is equally strange.
It's as though he is trying to create a 'mindset' so to speak.

He is teaching the wrong thing and some may eventually find themselves in trouble if they 'embrace' his training.

Exactly this. Everyone will only fall back onto their training and the "mindset" of their training is the foundation of their training and greatly affects the outcome.

 

[RVTECH]

Exactly this. Everyone will only fall back onto their training and the "mindset" of their training is the foundation of their training and greatly affects the outcome.

This part is equally bizarre, If that is not your reason, then don't carry a f#cking gun."

This is an incredibly 'backwards' diatribe and is a very unrealistic attitude (and opinion) about gun ownership in general.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Sounds Krav Magay.

 

[WillametteWill]

Wow.

Thanks for posting @OregonRider . This is why vetting of instructors is vital. Someone could be a fantastic operator, great at EP, a true hero warfighter, supercop...and provide terrible advice to armed citizens. Shooting to 'kill' is one of these pieces of bad advice. As his advice of not using sights and point shooting.

In some cases, using the gun or shooting "out of the notch' so you know you will be good enough for solid hits at close range may be fine. But as the aforementioned Col. Cooper studied from the hits on targets from LEO tactical teams, IIRC, he found that officers who remembered using their sights hit; those who did not missed. As Clint S. says...the bumpy things on the top of the gun are sights....use them.

As the female officer who came home after a double shift and when to the identical but wrong apartment on a different floor and mistakenly shot 'an intruder' that actually lived there. Horrible tragedy ans the made a terrible mistake. A big pat of the reason why she is still in jail is that the testified that she was trained to 'shoot to kill' as i understand it. This means she had the intended to (mistakenly) kill the wrong person. This mentality will not fly in a DGU criminal or civil trial.

The problem is not that we are reading this. Those on this thread 'get it' and also have the sage wisdom of @Andy54Hawken present. My fear is for the 21 year old new gun owner with a not fully developed prefrontal cortex who thinks this guy's advice is solid.

Sadly, there is more and more of this advice out there from folks who are actual heros, but not translating the difference between Faluja from Eugene very well.