A Good AR

[ZA_Survivalist]

tonyspdx: a while back it was more about trading junk for junk. Not a whole lot of work for a decent rifle, And at the time.. the "Black Rifle" hype was pretty bad. I'd say mine aren't a "Target Rifles" But then again.. the fit-finish-specs and performance of my colleagues AR's aren't completely out shooting my franken ARs..and they paid double. Much like clothing and certain tech gear, I find that hype and name brands can double the value of something worth less than its weight in salt. Plus, 3 Nagants are a few too many. It was hard to get rid of, but I sold it off a while back. I had to make some SAFE room.

And of course we all want projects to tinker around with, right? I'll admit, I don't hate the fun in building an AR. Even though its terribly easy, it's still like a deadly erector set.

Now a gas piston system.. that's a whole different story.

 

[Outrider]

don't build your own unless this is a plinking toy.

How do you come to that conclusion? Installing a good lower parts kit in a lower receiver is not hard. If you do your own build, you can even put in a good custom trigger that would be better than what you would find in a basic AR. An individual can build an AR that is better than what is generally available as regular inventory.

 

[M.Link]

Thanks for all the info guys! now you got me thinking about a RRA. I have a think about using what LE/Militay use, kinda dumb I guess but I think its pretty cool. Im kind of thinking about selling some of my other guns and just buying ONE (all I need) high-end AR and another pistol of two of high quality. One more question is, What is more light wieght, a standard M4 with stock handguards and a carry handle with a regular front sight, or a M4 with like a light weight rail system and flip up sights? I want a light gun without a bunch of extra stuff, just a sling and maybe a Insight M3 or something.

 

[zul]

Building an AR is not rocket science at all. I completely disagree with only building your own if for plinking. But I do agree on buying quality parts no matter which way you go.

+1

Dont believe the AR snobs. They are the ones that sink $3k into a single rifle and think if you spend less you are putting your life in mortal danger

 

[gunnoob75]

+1

Dont believe the AR snobs. They are the ones that sink $3k into a single rifle and think if you spend less you are putting your life in mortal danger

For some "AR Snobs", it WOULD be putting their lives in mortal danger.

Don't give advice on topics you know nothing about.

 

[Logical1]

save your money and buy a LWRC.....gas operated the new gold standard when it comes to AR's, and it runs flawlessly suppressed.....

 

[zul]

For some "AR Snobs", it WOULD be putting their lives in mortal danger.

Don't give advice on topics you know nothing about.

Everything is relative. If a LEO uses an AR daily as a carry weapon, of course he is going to need kit that is durable and reliable no matter what. If having a $1000 Acog is vital to his job and ultimately his life, it's great that such a thing exists. But that does not mean all other reddots are a waste of money. What about the casual shooter, or collector who fires his weapon twice a year at the range? For that shooter an $80 aimpoint clone may be perfect. Will that reddot hold up to the abuses of the LEO? Probably not, and that's why he has the acog.

An AR snob is someone who does not consider actual usage when recommending kit, and thinks anything but the absolute best is garbage in all applications.

My point is people need to take what they hear on the net with a grain of salt. Or maybe a few

 

[smonkbmw]

s&w mp15t. complete with everything your looking for i.e. flip sights, rail etc. sub $1500 and it has almost everything the colt does short of the polished feed ramp. I owned one and plan on getting another. that is unless i get a smokin deal on the new ruger.

 

[Iceberg]

The Colt 6940 LE Carbine w/ monolithic rail has what you need and you can pick them up for around $1300 now. Best of all it is a Colt and will hold its value when and if the time comes when you want to move it.

 

[newt]

How do you come to that conclusion? Installing a good lower parts kit in a lower receiver is not hard. If you do your own build, you can even put in a good custom trigger that would be better than what you would find in a basic AR. An individual can build an AR that is better than what is generally available as regular inventory.

OK maybe I'm a snob. But there are crappy LPJ's too. But I guess I'd ask you how much formal training you do? How many times have you done a 3-day carbine operators course with a home built gun? Sure it's not rocket science, if you want an OK gun. But just about every course I attend where home built guns are on the line, the go down on day 2 or 3. While the guys that are using BCM's, Noveske's, Colts are going strong. Pat Rogers has a BCM midlength with just over 28K rounds through it. Have you really tried that? Those little details that you get from the tier one makers make a difference. If you don't need that level of reliability, then go for it.

 

[Outrider]

OK maybe I'm a snob. But there are crappy LPJ's too. But I guess I'd ask you how much formal training you do? How many times have you done a 3-day carbine operators course with a home built gun? Sure it's not rocket science, if you want an OK gun. But just about every course I attend where home built guns are on the line, the go down on day 2 or 3. While the guys that are using BCM's, Noveske's, Colts are going strong. Pat Rogers has a BCM midlength with just over 28K rounds through it. Have you really tried that? Those little details that you get from the tier one makers make a difference. If you don't need that level of reliability, then go for it.

I didn't say you're a snob. And I didn't say use the cheapest, garbage LPK you can find. If you read what I wrote, you can see I was talking about using good quality parts. My mention of using a Noveske upper for a build is a pretty good indication of what I'm thinking of.

I'm glad you have formal training and I understand you're proud of that. However, don't assume that someone who has a different point of view doesn't have training. I do have formal training and I do attend classes when I get the opportunity for something that fits my schedule. I have not put 28K rounds through my last AR build, but since I built it with a complete Noveske upper and you're impressed with Noveske and BCM, maybe you'll concede that it should do well and that it can do more than be just "OK for plinking."

While I would be perfectly fine taking a basic, stock Noveske rifle to a carbine class, I can build a better rifle given what's available on the market. I'm working on a build right now that uses a Noveske barrel, a Geissele trigger, matching billet upper and lower receivers that will, without question outclass a Noveske basic light carbine. Additionally I get to put the furniture I want on the gun instead of getting their bare bones stuff that gets yanked immediately.

A home built AR, like anything else that is assembled, is limited by the skill of the builder and the materials/components used. Some of what you have seen in classes on a firing line is the result of someone assembling something incorrectly or using lower end parts. However some of it is also poor maintenance and bad luck. High end guns can go down as well and they do. Do you seriously think a pin has never drifted out of position on a Colt rifle's FCG? If it happens the rifle can stop working on the spot, but it doesn't mean the rifle is garbage and the Colt brand is terrible.

Also, you should take some of what you see in a carbine class with a grain of salt. Many of the people who take carbine classes are akin to recruits learning to how to handle their rifle. Judging a rifle harshly because an inexperienced shooter is having difficulty with it can be attributing blame to the wrong source. Operator error is often a factor.

The thing to keep in mind with AR's is that the manufacturers are basically assembling components that are coming from other companies. If you don't believe me, look into where all the different receivers come from and you'll find that six or seven companies are actually responsible for the vast majority of lower receivers on the market.

That does not mean there are not differences in quality in the components or that it doesn't matter. There are differences in quality and price but the two do not always go hand in hand. For example, there is nothing special about a Noveske lower receiver but because the Noveske barrel is well thought of the Noveske lower receiver gets sold at a premium due to the brand. The Back-up Iron Sights on a Noveske rifle have the Noveske logo but they are Troy flip-up BUIS. These are components Noveske is going into the market to buy for their builds and you as an individual can do the same thing. There is nothing magical about the pistol grip that comes on a Noveske rifle but when you buy a complete Noveske rifle you are paying a premium on the whole thing.

You should be able to see that you could make a rifle every bit as good as theirs or better. If someone chooses to cut corners or doesn't know how to assemble one and makes a substandard rifle I don't see why you assume all home built AR rifles are garbage. It is amazing that some people look at a home built AR with different parts and automatically dismiss it as a Frankenstein type of mismatch when it can be a very well done custom build.

The benefits of going with an established brand rifle is that you know what you're getting and if there's a problem, there's generally a warranty on the product. The benefits of building your own is that you can (as in have the opportunity to) make it better than what's generally available on the market and make it exactly what you want for yourself.

 

[TOVO]

Dude you live in Oregon. Build your own SBR for $1,300 + $200 tax stamp.

 

[M.Link]

Thanks for all the ideas. I don't really want a NFA gun. I figured out what I'm gunna do though! I talked my cousin into selling me his Colt with a 16" H-Bar and flat top reciever for 800 bucks! With 8 LE marked mags. Then I'm gunna put a low profile gas block on it, long rails and flip up sights and a Noveske flash hider.

 

[newt]

Outrider,

I didn't assume that you don't have formal training. And you clearly have more experience building guns than most, which is great. It's just been my and others experience that MOST people (clearly not including you) don't have that level of experience in building guns, and because of that, building their own can cause issues when you start to stress a gun.

I guess my real point is that it's not even all that applicable. The OP didn't ask about building rifles, and MAY not have your experience (I don't know that). I think he's getting a little lead astray. People just throwing out "Build your own" when it doesn't necessarily work and wasn't even asked about. It wasn't a personal attack on you or anyone. So...um...don't take it personally.

 

[Outrider]

Newt,

I see your point that the guy was getting some bad build advice. I agree. Some of what I was reading could/would lead to an end product that was less than ideal.

I don't take your point of view as a personal attack. Perhaps it was a thing where we were talking past each other...

 

[n47587]

Im getting ready to buy another AR, to replace my Colt I sold. I plan to spend about $1000.00 on one and want to know what you guys had in mind. I can spend up to $1500.00. Ive been looking at Stags and really like them... Ive kinda got it in my mind that I want a M4 style with some light weight rails and flip up sights, kind of a nice, light, compact, set up. Then again I keep thinking a standard 20" barrelled AR with a ACOG would be awesom. Talk me into or out of something please!!! It will be used for fun shooting and Home Defense.

A few years back I picked up two dpms lower recievers and purchased parts from ebay before they converted to communism. Building one from parts is the most ecconomical. complete uppers from Midway or rock river are good way to go. brownells has a good supply of customizing goodies also

 

[Selftest]

Everything is relative. If a LEO uses an AR daily as a carry weapon, of course he is going to need kit that is durable and reliable no matter what. If having a $1000 Acog is vital to his job and ultimately his life, it's great that such a thing exists. But that does not mean all other reddots are a waste of money. What about the casual shooter, or collector who fires his weapon twice a year at the range? For that shooter an $80 aimpoint clone may be perfect. Will that reddot hold up to the abuses of the LEO? Probably not, and that's why he has the acog.

An AR snob is someone who does not consider actual usage when recommending kit, and thinks anything but the absolute best is garbage in all applications.

My point is people need to take what they hear on the net with a grain of salt. Or maybe a few

While I agree with this in premise, the OP stated a budget which allows him the freedom to choose a high-quality AR the first time.

As far as collectors or plinkers buying lower tier weapons... why? If your budget is $700, and you are NEVER ever going to possibly use your AR for self-defense, then get what you like at that price range. But, when the OP states a budget of $1500, it opens the doors for a range of high quality weapons.

 

[JD42]

To start. I would go with a nice 16in Chrome lined M4 type bye any of the big manufactures. Stag, RRA, Bushmaster, CMMG, Colt, Or Bravo Co. Most of the parts are made bye the same Co. Then assembled bye the above. Spend the money on ammo and a good supley of Mag's. Magpull P mag's or USGI 30 rd. Then when you have had a little experance with it. Add what you want. Good FF rail Optics etc.

 

[cyclesarge]

While I agree with this in premise, the OP stated a budget which allows him the freedom to choose a high-quality AR the first time.

As far as collectors or plinkers buying lower tier weapons... why? If your budget is $700, and you are NEVER ever going to possibly use your AR for self-defense, then get what you like at that price range. But, when the OP states a budget of $1500, it opens the doors for a range of high quality weapons.

He actually said " I plan to spend about $1000.00 on one and want to know what you guys had in mind. I can spend up to $1500.00." The fact that he is asking us what he needs leads me to believe it's not a weapon he'll be using in a day to day lifesaving manner. When was the last time a SWAT member asked you for advice on what gun to buy?

 

[kentsboots]

How do M1sales compare to the others? I know they are cheap , but nobody mentioned them yet that i saw...