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9mm, .40, .45?

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by The Governor, Dec 1, 2013.

  1. The Governor

    The Governor salem Member

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    in a SHTF survival situation, or any other situation, is there any purpose/necessity for or advantage to having a rifle in 9mm, .40 cal, or .45 cal? Also, if you could only choose or have ONE, would you pick one of those three calibers in a rifle or a traditional rifle caliber like 223/5.56, 7.62×39, or 308/7.62×51?
     
  2. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Well, I hunt with 30-06. I carry .45 and occasionally .357 or 9mm, but

    SHTF, SKS and 7.62x39. It was cheap, reliable and I have gathered a LOT of ammo for it. I'd prefer .308, or really 30-06, but the guns that use them are usually heavy, bulky and expensive.
    Also, any of the rifle rounds you mentioned will reach out much farther than any pistol caliber, even the magnums.
     
  3. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Most people can shoot a carbine more accurately than a pistol. The carbine will also provide more velocity/energy.
    A "traditional" rifle caliber in a rifle totally outclasses a pistol caliber carbine in performance.
     
  4. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    In military history the handgun replaced the sword as a personal defense weapon, infantry officers above Captain became more and more managers and administrators who did not need a long arm and with the demise of horse cavalry a 'hand gun' was not a necessity as well.
    Handgun marksmanship is a difficult thing to teach a conscripted army, handguns are expensive to manufacture.
    A carbine, semi or full auto is an alternative to a handgun for those in or near a combat zone who are not Riflemen.
    Until the 1960's these auto-carbines were all pistol calibers except for the US M-1 Carbine which was a hybred of sorts. The M-14 was touted as a rifle that eliminated the need for M-1 rifles, BARs, SMGs and Carbines, of course it was too light to replace the BAR and too heavy to replace the Carbine.
    The M-16 was a Carbine @ 6.5 pounds but now weighs nearly as much as an M-1 Garand! and so we see pistols still issued.
    The PCC, Pistol Caliber Carbine has a place where small size and light weight are needed and long range deep penetration of cover is not an issue.
    Modern intermediate calibers are the compromise between rifle and pistol ammunitions
    I would pick the 762X39 in a stainless Mini-30 as the One rifle for self defense
    if it were a PCC/pistol combo I would look to 10mm for it's penetration power
     
  5. viehmann7680

    viehmann7680 Centralia Active Member

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    If I was going to use a carbine or rifle in a pistol cartridge, i would use 9mm. I also would use a 9mm in a handgun as well. When you look at it over all, it has a lot behind it. Cheapest caliber of the three, magazines hold more, a lot of police, army, and NATO use it. So plentiful supply. The military choose it after a lot testing. And it has better results with penetration through windows. May not seem like much but still nice to know.

    I haven't shot one but have been wanting to look into the Kel-tec carbines that shoot, i believe, all of these calibers and can accept regular magazines like Glock. Which would be nice for SHTF purposes. Carrying a Glock 19 and a carbine that takes the same magazine would be nice. Plus the ease of finding magazines. This is just my two cents though.
     
  6. rdt

    rdt SW Portland Active Member

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    I like how erdune looked at it and I really like his answer. I never really saw the point of the mini30 until just now. i agree with viehmann about the pervasiveness of 9mm: it wins out over 10mm in my mind. id add that part of the motivation to move from full power rifles to intermediate carbines was total number of bullets downrange, and again 9mm has alot going for it there.

    the same arguments stack up nicely for the AR in 223 as well.

    or how about 12ga pump 20" barrel folding Knox stock? way more energy than any handgun. pack some slugs with you and you're gtg!

    personally I'm going to say .45 since I think it's also ridiculously common and has more energy, espescially if we're talking +P cause we are loading for carbine/PDW. I'd like to see a glock30SF beside a glock mag AR carbine in .45. The AR to be as mil spec as possible but overbuilt bolt so we can load the 45 super hot. And it needs a rifle-grenade attachment :cool:
     
  7. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    The PCC has it's place and IMHO that's training, it's not lighter than a rifle, it's not more powerful than a rifle. I think if anything taking a pistol and making it into a rifle would be superior than making a rifle into a pistol caliber. So a glock with a shoulder stock (NFA required) would be a better way to go. The only thing that really comes close otherwise is the keltec sub-2000. It's practically a pipe rifle, but fed from magazines... nothing wrong there.
     
  8. kickstart my heart

    kickstart my heart South King County, WA Active Member

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    Only reason I see carrying a pistol caliber carbine/rifle is that you want it and your pistol to use the same round (not having to carry multiple calibers or track down multiple calibers), or they take the same mags. I used to carry a Glock 17 and had a Keltec Sub-2000 that took the same mags several years ago. It would fold up and fit in my laptop case. Being that I was a sales rep driving all over the state, it was a handy way to go.
     
  9. Hook686

    Hook686 Northern California Active Member

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    All three of those are pretty much the same, so it is your choice. If you like having a handgun and a rifle in the same caliber, you might consider .357 magnum, or .44 magnum. These are a notch up from the standard service calibers of 9mm, .40, and .45acp.
     
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  10. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    anything but a 9mm or a .223, unless of course you are a girl or a sissyboy!
     
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  11. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    I want 10 mm pistol like the Witness And and a carbine that will shoot same mags. That and a 1,000 rds of ammo for said is all i want for Christmas and shtf. But the former is not as likely as the latter so I will settle for my .45 and M4gery if the latter happens.

    Brutus out
     
  12. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Have to go with 10mm in a pistol/carbine combo. Since I own neither, a moot point. I shoot a friends Colt pistol in 10 and my busted up old hands have difficulty with the recoil anyway.
     
  13. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Actually 9MM has poor results on laminated glass vs the larger calibers, IF we are talking JHPs. Now the 9MM 124 Gr NATO +P load (FMJ) is a real penetrator, but does a lot less damage in bodies

    I have virtually every popular caliber in a handgun and my next street CCW primary is likely going to be a 10MM Witness Elite. There is a roller locked HK guru gunsmith who is working on a new design for a carbine/PDW with interchangeable calibers, I want mine first in 10MM

    HOWEVER you are unlikely to find 10MM in SHTF situation, so if you don't reload/have the $$ to stockpile, I would go with 9MM or 40 S & W
     
  14. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    9MM will be widely available, that in itself is an advantage. .22LR will run out, as will .40 S&W and .45 ACP for those who do not reload. 9MM will be carried by the military and that will be the source of ammunition should SHTF. I myself am looking at a 9MM carbine, Thureon Defense GA 9MM Thureon Defense | The Shield of Liberty, JRC Home Page, HiPoint Welcome to Hi-Point Firearms! or Beretta CX Storm http://www.berettausa.com/products/cx4-storm/ are all good choices depending on your pocket book.
     
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  15. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    7.45 g (115 gr) FMJ 390 m/s (1,300 ft/s) 570 J (420 ft·lbf)
    180 gr (12 g) Magtech FMJ-FP 1,050 ft/s (320 m/s) 441 ft·lbf (598 J)
    230 gr (15 g) US Army Ball FMJ 830 ft/s (250 m/s) 352 ft·lbf (477 J)

    Those are the numbers from wikipedia for most used bullet weights and/or loads in 9mm, .40 and .45. How is that the same, when .40 has almost 50% more energy than 9mm or .45 ? Now of course there are +P rounds available for both 9mm and .45, but that is not in the original question...
     
  16. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    How many units are actually issued 9mm sidearms to become a source of that ammo ? For instance, Oregon guard only issues M9 to the folks who aren't getting M4's, which is minority. .40 on the other hand is widely used by law enforcement agencies and Coast Guard.
     
  17. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    I am having a hard time imagining you picking up 10mm brass to be reloaded later while fighting a herd of zombies in STHF situation. I think choosing a caliber for your weapon system only thinking about the availability of such caliber in a SHTF situation is pointless altogether. Should you run low on ammo, you can always find a different weapon system and "acquire" the ammo for it. Otherwise why would you run low on ammo in the first place ?
     
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  18. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    In most cases, it'll be "Run what ya brung", I'd bet. 10MM to me seems a nice combo of power for both pistol and PCC.

    Brutus out
     
  19. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, folks just need to keep in mind full power 10mm is pretty snappy, not everybody can handle it well in a pistol.
     
  20. Hook686

    Hook686 Northern California Active Member

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    Posted by fd15k:


    My information is from the 'Jello shooters' test results.


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