.45 acp stopping power

[JGRuby]

I use what I practice with and use my relaods for both. I know of no case where the determining factor was " he used reloads" until I do I will use what works best for me.

James Ruby

 

[clambo]

I remember this discussion in law courses I once took. The professor told the class to buy the best defense ammo you could buy at 'GI Joes,' but don't think about loading your own because the prosecution will blow that right out of proportion. That you made special bullets to maim/kill. Well, duh.

Take a minute to consider how stupid the average person/juror is and how easily they are manipulated.

We all know how fear and wordplay rules even more today than year's ago.

I stopped putting Buffalo Bore in my CC as my final rounds just for that reason. I could hear it now. "This killer used BUFFALO bullets to kill this fellow!!!"

The whole judged by 12, carried by 6 thing is fine, but I never even once put a pistol on my belt without pondering the legal ramifications of doing so.

Speer Gold Dots - now that sounds nice and peaceful lol; Buffalo Bore or Zombie Max does not. If you are ever brought up on charges you can be guaranteed that the type of bullet you used will be paraded in front of the jury. If your defense lawyer can show that you acted 'reasonable' in your purchase of XXX rounds at Bi-Mart, things will go better for you.

If Zimmerman had used Zombie Max or loaded his own ammo that is all you would have heard 24/7.

I will no doubt be ok with my roundnose lead cowboy loads ! Everyone loved The Duke !

 

[SynapticSilence]

Thanks, Burt. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Although I'm sure they'll basically say you're an idiot for listening to non-gun people like law professors. Or people who spend 13 years testifying in court. Or Mas Ayoob (emphasized by a dismissive yawn). Or just plain old common sense. I'll see if I can find the case where the jury convicted someone for shooting someone multiple times with a semi-automatic handgun. The prosecutor falsely demonstrated that the defendant had to pull the trigger and then re-rack the slide each time, making it seem like a much more deliberate act than a mere reaction in the moment. He went to jail. That's how stupid juries are, how determined and misleading prosecutors can be, and how bad defense attorneys can be if you're like most people and pick a name out of the phone book. But, hey, you still got your macho pride, I suppose.

 

[JGRuby]

The statement that reloads would get you in a world of trouble in court - prove that one please. I know of no precedence inidcating such a thing. Reracking your pistol is completely differetn thing in my opinion.

James Ruby

 

[clambo]

Thanks, Burt. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Although I'm sure they'll basically say you're an idiot for listening to non-gun people like law professors. Or people who spend 13 years testifying in court. Or Mas Ayoob (emphasized by a dismissive yawn). Or just plain old common sense. I'll see if I can find the case where the jury convicted someone for shooting someone multiple times with a semi-automatic handgun. The prosecutor falsely demonstrated that the defendant had to pull the trigger and then re-rack the slide each time, making it seem like a much more deliberate act than a mere reaction in the moment. He went to jail. That's how stupid juries are, how determined and misleading prosecutors can be, and how bad defense attorneys can be if you're like most people and pick a name out of the phone book. But, hey, you still got your macho pride, I suppose.

I never once said that such a thing could not happen. Just that it is astronomically unlikely, therefore hardly worth worrying about. Do you worry about being struck by lightening ? Did the most recent end of the world panic send you scurrying for your hole ? I'm gonna guess no on both, so why worry about this ? As for Ayoob, you refer to him in the informal as " Mas ". Am I to assume that you two are friends ?

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Well, had not read pages 2-3 and this discussion has gotten a bit heated. I will just pass along two pieces of advice from my Attourney (criminal law). First, never post a beware of dog sign on your property and carry factory rounds in your CH. I would like to point out that I was one of his first clients from his Legal Aid days and he has never had to represent me on a criminal matter.

As an aside, Slightly Disturbeds Dad. Is your true name Profoundly Disturbed?

 

[JGRuby]

Thanks, Burt. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Although I'm sure they'll basically say you're an idiot for listening to non-gun people like law professors. Or people who spend 13 years testifying in court. Or Mas Ayoob (emphasized by a dismissive yawn). Or just plain old common sense. I'll see if I can find the case where the jury convicted someone for shooting someone multiple times with a semi-automatic handgun. The prosecutor falsely demonstrated that the defendant had to pull the trigger and then re-rack the slide each time, making it seem like a much more deliberate act than a mere reaction in the moment. He went to jail. That's how stupid juries are, how determined and misleading prosecutors can be, and how bad defense attorneys can be if you're like most people and pick a name out of the phone book. But, hey, you still got your macho pride, I suppose.

Where is the evidence instead of opinion that carrying reloads is a bad thing what court case or law indicates this - up to now this is just opinion. Please provide some sort of legal precedence. Synaptic - you made the statement, back it up please.

James Ruby

 

[DonovanJay]

ya'll might just start up a new thread about the legal wisdom of reloading for self defense instead of derailing this one.

 

[JGRuby]

The statement was made in this thread.

James Ruby

 

[SynapticSilence]

Please reread the thread in order. I never said it was anything but my opinion, albeit it one founded on an extensive experience working in the courts. Please feel free to ignore it. Again.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[JGRuby]

I will, thank you - enough ignorance is apread without solid details that you just cant take what you read as the gospel now days.

James Ruby

 

[plumberfishes]

here's the thing.... I have this ammo can.. as i reload they drop pout of the press into the can.. on the VERY rare occasion that i pick up factory rounds..(usually in trade) they get dumped in the ammo can... so I could not say for sure that the round I hit anything with was or was not a reload....

 

[SynapticSilence]

I don't think my opinion is ignorance. It has a foundation in logic, represents considered thought, and is based on extensive first hand experience in how the courts, DAs, defense attorneys, and juries work in reality. In that light, a strategy of risk avoidance makes sense. Which is all I'm saying.

 

[JGRuby]

Then show me one case that it has made the difference - please. I dont mind being proven wrong or ignorant.
There are a lot of things I believe but until there is evidence it is hard to make such a statement saying that it should not be done as has been stated here. I personally think and though I am not involved with court cases as you are that this is at best a myth. I have never heard a definitive position taken by any legal authority that it should not be done. You are welcome to your opinion as we all are but unless there is evidence it is not something that I personally beleive makes a difference. as example - I bought components from Bi-mart, I used a hornady reloading manual and my loads are not at the top, but close. I have tested the loads in my firearms as any person should. So I have standard reloads based on the reloading manual that is widely publicized. Nothing exotic. I simply dont agree with your position and you have provided no evidence other than to simply state you dont think it should be done.

James Ruby

 

[glockman99]

45 acp stopping power...Please stay on topic.

 

[theminutemenrideagain]

I am having a hard time understanding why anyone would take the chance and carry reloads anyways when there is even a question about it? go spends $20 on some hornady JHP and just keep them for packing, then start your reloads to match the hornady loads so you can practice your shooting drills with the same loads as what you are carrying, they have invested ALOT of time and money making the best shell they can so just go with that,better safe than facing jailtime because you thought you would be ok.

 

[Velzey]

Ever have factory ammo that doesnt go boom? I have.

I trust only my own reloads, for my carry!

 

[clambo]

I am having a hard time understanding why anyone would take the chance and carry reloads anyways when there is even a question about it? go spends $20 on some hornady JHP and just keep them for packing, then start your reloads to match the hornady loads so you can practice your shooting drills with the same loads as what you are carrying, they have invested ALOT of time and money making the best shell they can so just go with that,better safe than facing jailtime because you thought you would be ok.

Why carry handloads over factory ? Because I am sick and tired of people trying to tell me what is best for me. Pretty much the entire 2A theme in a nutshell. I'll carry them because much like my gun, it pleases me to do so. If people really feel this way how come there are no posts blasting people for using AR15's for defense when a single shot .22 is available ? Doesn't anyone here feel that someone using an AR in a justifiable shooting would be crucified at least as much as a guy shooting handloads in a handgun ? I'm pretty sure they would, yet no one has mentioned that, probably because Massad Ayoob and the other TV experts haven't given them permission to form or use that thought until it puts some money in their pocket.

I feel pretty safe. I carry a .38 wheelgun, mostly. Much less manacing by popular and television standards than anything black, semi-auto, or plastic. I'm a fat old man, not a mall ninja or wannabe special ops guy. I don't even own any black clothing or a combat knife. Have no knowledge of martial arts. In fact, I often use a cane as I am 70% disabled as determined by the V.A. I do however have 2 good attorneys on retainer for emergency and I sleep well because I'm confident I will be ok.

3 gr. of Bullseye with a lead semi-wadcutter does not a Black Talon make.

 

[coop44]

I'm not so fancy with the math (tools of the Devil!). Never heard of anyone being shot with a 45 and saying "ouch that smarts, gimee a bandaid" Just in case of that happening I'll make sure I hit them more than once, after all I have 15 to work with.

 

[glockman99]

45 acp stopping power...Please stay on topic.

It looks like this just isn't going to happen...