.45 acp crimp

[Josh89]

is it normal for the crimp to mark the bullet or is it to much crimp.i set one a little to far and pulled it back out and noticed a mark on the bullet from the crimp.it was noticeable but it didn't break the copper plating.just curious if I have to much crimp.

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[Alexx1401]

is it normal for the crimp to mark the bullet or is it to much crimp.i set one a little to far and pulled it back out and noticed a mark on the bullet from the crimp.it was noticeable but it didn't break the copper plating.just curious if I have to much crimp.

If they feed you're fine. Do you have a go no go gauge? If not they are nice to have. The other thing I LOVE is a Lee Factory Crimp die. The first time I tried one of these was something like 20 ago. As soon as I tired one I bought one for ever hand gun caliber I load. They take all the guess work and trial and error out of this very important step.

 

[Silver Hand]

If you care to, use your barrel if you want to know anything about a go, no go gauge,
It is not the same as the minimum measurements used in those go, no go gauges set up for every bore.

I cannot see the crimp from here but when shooting lead in my .45 ACP there is no crimp visible at all just the tension on the case holds the bullet in place.
Silver Hand

 

[DizzyJ]

All you really want is enough crimp to hold the bullet in place. Too much crimp and you can damage the bullet and negatively affect accuracy.

 

[ageingstudent]

is it normal for the crimp to mark the bullet or is it to much crimp.i set one a little to far and pulled it back out and noticed a mark on the bullet from the crimp.it was noticeable but it didn't break the copper plating.just curious if I have to much crimp.

With your auto cases you just want to remove the flair/bell maybe a tad more. If you have good neck tension that's more important. If the plating isn't cracked it's probably fine but you could back it off a tad. Plunk in your barrel for fit in your gun.

 

[thorborg]

I've yet to bother loading 45ACP but do 45 Colt, 357 and 38 special in pistol size and have only needed to crimp the light lead hot load 38 special. Gun used are revolvers and not magazine fed.
That said,
Do you need to crimp would be my first thought. the more you mess with metal, the more you have to mess with metal. Not just redressing the edge but annealing due to work hardening.
I would not crimp a mag / cylinder load and measure carefully OAL going in and the last one or two unfired for OAL recoil movement to see if crimping is necessary. I would do this if I increased the load or changed the projectile (weight or construction)
Now if you are crimping to increase pressure, that would be between you and your maker.

 

[Mikej]

I expand/bell my cases just enough so the bullet barely sets in the case. When crimping/squeezing barely feeling the resistance in the handle of the press is sufficient to close the expanded/belled case mouth on the bullet. That resistance will vary slightly due to varied case lengths.

I use an RCBS Rockchucker.

 

[jg rider]

The way I've set up my crimp dies for almost 30 yrs. When shooting IPSC, UPSA, Steel is to resize a case. Then move it to the taper crimp die. Turn out the crimp die, raise the sized case and then turn down the die to touch the case mouth and lock it in place.
Turns out what I'm doing is recommended by some one from Dillon but they suggest to turn down the crimp die another 1/4 turn.
I do this with /45, 9mm, and even roll crimp for my light .38 / .357, .44 mag loads
I don't like the Lee Factory Dies because for me they resize the case mouth and the seated bullet to a smaller diameter.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I can't wait 'til 2027 when some nimrod re-opens this thread and says to the OP, "Yea, you probably won't die.".

 

[ma96782]

Say it this way............

Revolver cartridges (like the .38 Special or 45 LC) need a roll crimp. You don't want the bullet jumping forward (due to recoil) to tie up your revolver. The die makers have built this feature into their die sets (when properly adjusted).

A cartridge that headspaces on the rim of a case (like the .45 ACP or .380 ACP) uses a taper crimp. It's less pronounced then your roll crimp. The die makers have built this feature into their dies (when properly set). It's usually GTG as long as the cartridges feeds reliably from the magazine and retains it's OAL. Another obvious error happens when your bullets have telescoped back into the case. OMG.

Line drawings, Q. What is the difference between a roll crimp and a taper crimp?
http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellg.htm

Bottle neck rifle cartridges usually work on the with "just enough crimp to get the job done." Huh? Well, because of the various ways to feed a cartridge, the amount of crimp will depend. Think about a cartridge fed from a tube magazine (like a Winchester lever action) or a cartridge fed from a auto/semi-auto rifle w/ a magazine (like an M16) or a cartridge fed into the chamber (like from a bolt action). And, of course the single cartridge just fed directly into a chamber (break open single shots). So, it'll depend. Accuracy buffs also use "just enough crimp" or even just "neck tension"......of course they experiment with the right amount of tension for maximum accuracy. Then, some shooters also like factory crimp dies to get that uniformity in their crimp (like factory new ammo). Whatever, it's your choice. But in the end, you don't want to crimp it so strongly that you deform the bullet (that ruins accuracy), you don't want to have your bullets telescope back into the cases and you don't want to unduely raise pressures to dangerous levels with too strong of a crimp. Conversely, a crimp that is not strong enough, might leave you with your bullet stuck in the chamber. Should you decide to extract the cartridge without firing it.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Josh89]

It was to tight,they didn't pass the plunk test because there was a buldge in them.

 

[Member 5605]

As Mr @Josh89 has found out, with a fast tapered crimp die vs a smooth taper crimp die, a small adjustment can have profound compounding problems.

While crimp may be tight the case can buckle behind the crimp.

See photo:



I've had a batch of them in .357 do that when the cases were too long by a little bit. They didn't pass the ammo checker test but since they were in a revolver I forced them into the cylinder. They shot fine and extracted a little tight.

 

[Alexx1401]

It was to tight,they didn't pass the plunk test because there was a buldge in them.

Yep, this is why the crimp needs the proper adjustment. The die sets have long been made for the proper type of crimp of course. Many seem to want to make everything harder than it has to be for some reason. <shrug>. The people who make the dies of course do know what they are doing. When you set the die all the cases have to have roughly the same length or it will not be consistent. This is why I love the Lee Die for separate crimping. It does away with adjustments and even if the cases are not quite the same you get great crimp. They are not something you need since we were loading long before they were invented. They just came up with a way to make it a lot easier. Since I discovered them they have been a saver for many loaders. Would tell me they were having trouble with loads in one or more of their autos. I would take some of their already loaded ammo and run it past my Lee FC die. Suddenly the ammo would now work. These are certainly not "needed" but if you want the ammo to work and make the loading easy they are the way to go.

 

[Josh89]

Yep, this is why the crimp needs the proper adjustment. The die sets have long been made for the proper type of crimp of course. Many seem to want to make everything harder than it has to be for some reason. <shrug>. The people who make the dies of course do know what they are doing. When you set the die all the cases have to have roughly the same length or it will not be consistent. This is why I love the Lee Die for separate crimping. It does away with adjustments and even if the cases are not quite the same you get great crimp. They are not something you need since we were loading long before they were invented. They just came up with a way to make it a lot easier. Since I discovered them they have been a saver for many loaders. Would tell me they were having trouble with loads in one or more of their autos. I would take some of their already loaded ammo and run it past my Lee FC die. Suddenly the ammo would now work. These are certainly not "needed" but if you want the ammo to work and make the loading easy they are the way to go.

I have one for my 9mm and it works great,waiting for my 45 one to get here

 

[Alexx1401]

I have one for my 9mm and it works great,waiting for my 45 one to get here

You will be glad you did. As soon as I tried one I was sold and have never looked back. I have yet to find a loader who after I got them to try did not go out and buy them for their set up. You don't have to use one but it just makes things far easier. I like easy.

 

[Mikej]

've had a batch of them in .357 do that when the cases were too long by a little bit. They didn't pass the ammo checker test but since they were in a revolver I forced them into the cylinder. They shot fine and extracted a little tight.

.38, .357, .44 special and magnum, .45 Colt are completely different crimps. Those are roll crimps. We are talking .45 acp, (Arent we?) that is a taper crimp. It's imperative to make sure cases requiring a roll crimp are the same length within about .002" to get uniform crimp on all cases.

When crimping/squeezing barely feeling the resistance in the handle of the press is sufficient to close the expanded/belled case mouth on the bullet. That resistance will vary slightly due to varied case lengths.

Maybe I'm totally missing something here?

 

[Member 5605]

.38, .357, .44 special and magnum, .45 Colt are completely different crimps. Those are roll crimps. We are talking .45 acp, (Arent we?) that is a taper crimp. It's imperative to make sure cases requiring a roll crimp are the same length within about .002" to get uniform crimp on all cases.

Yes.

But.....
Over crimping can cause issues which is the theme of the thread.

The RCBS .45 ACP unit has a very shallow crimp ring where it's 0-100 in a very short span/turn of the die, which as you know is very similar to how a roll crimp is applied. Which is not as forgiving as a taper crimp when using a Lee FCD and its gradual taper vs the short ramp on the RCBS die.

That more clear?

 

[Alexx1401]

Yes.

But.....
Over crimping can cause issues which is the theme of the thread.

The RCBS .45 ACP unit has a very shallow crimp ring where it's 0-100 in a very short span/turn of the die, which as you know is very similar to how a roll crimp is applied. Which is not as forgiving as a taper crimp when using a Lee FCD and its gradual taper vs the short ramp on the RCBS die.

That more clear?

Yep what he said! Does not matter if wheel gun case or auto. If the crimp is not done right it's a problem. Bulged case that can be hard to spot but cause feeding problems. In a wheel gun rounds jumping the crimp and binding things up. In an auto too little and the slug can be shoved farther into the case which changes the pressure. The crimp done wrong is often the culprit when someone is having problems with a reload.

 

[Mikej]

I didn't think there was a ring in a taper crimp die...9mm, .45 etc. Only a narrowing that slowly presses around the case to remove what ever bell is there.

From my experience it takes very little to fold a .38/.357 case....and I don't think I ever folded/bulged a taper crimp cases to the point they were unusable?

And, I'm clear on how to do it. Our poster appears to have it in his mind that you need to REALLY tighten that case around that bullet. That's where the re-quote and the "Maybe I'm missing something" comes from.

 

[Member 5605]

I didn't think there was a ring in a taper crimp die...9mm, .45 etc. Only a narrowing that slowly presses around the case to remove what ever bell is there.

From my experience it takes very little to fold a .38/.357 case....and I don't think I ever folded/bulged a taper crimp cases to the point they were unusable?

And, I'm clear on how to do it. Our poster appears to have it in his mind that you need to REALLY tighten that case around that bullet. That's where the re-quote and the "Maybe I'm missing something" comes from.

It's not unheard of..





But people believe Sasquatch exists as well so I guess the inverse is true.


Hornady American .45 ACP die on left with very good taper and easily visible. RCBS .45 ACP die on right... taper or roll?

The left photo I took from my turret.

The right photo was sent to me by an unnamed source.


I'm really not being a dick, I am very patient and know that nobody knows everything and I've been shown wrong a time or two, three, hundred.

When the die set is unknown and the reloader is new, the term "crimp" is crimp. They would ASSUME whatever die they have is the type we all refer to. Took me a while to get the terminology down and understand so when I had dies they had the proper crimp TYPE in them.