.45-70 WCF questions

[xyzzy]

Howdy gals & gents, before you get too excited about the topic, let me say that my question is about a rifle, not the caliber. (I already am a fan of the caliber.)

I have an original model 1886 Winchester chambered in .45-70 with octagonal barrel which, by its serial number, was manufactured in 1889. My questions in order are:

1. Would I be a complete fool to fire this gun, at least in terms of the effect on its value? I have no plans to sell it, as it was my father's, but I wouldn't want to reduce its value for my own heirs. The barrel and action are both in solid, good shape; this gun was very, very well maintained, and as a longtime gun owner myself I have continued that (albeit in storage, as regards this gun).
   
2. Assuming the answer to the above question were "yes", can it handle modern cowboy-action loads?

I can add more info as to why I'm interested in firing this gun if need be. I would ask, though, please, that if you have nothing to add but judgemental insults, then just don't answer me. I have had mostly bad experiences with commenters on threads here at northwestfirearms being complete jerks along those lines and ruining conversations, so I'm hoping that this will be among those posts that doesn't go that direction. Thank you in advance.

James

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[GOG]

Well James you probably just went to the wrong places.

If I had that rifle I'd surely shoot it. But first I would have a good smith check it out even though you maintained it. I don't doubt you, but with a family piece like that I'd want to be safe rather than sorry. Then I'd most definitely shoot it.
It's a gun, a tool. Use it.

And welcome from the great State of Jefferson.

 

[xyzzy]

Well James you probably just went to the wrong places.

If I had that rifle I'd surely shoot it. But first I would have a good smith check it out even though you maintained it. I don't doubt you, but with a family piece like that I'd want to be safe rather than sorry. Then I'd most definitely shoot it.
It's a gun, a tool. Use it.

And welcome from the great State of Jefferson.

Thanks GOG, that's sound advice! I've been itching to get it out to the range. They sure knew how to make solid firearms back in 1889.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I gotta Agree with GOG here, Such a fine Rifle was meant to be used, Just as it was in the day it was made! I never could understand the desire to NOT shoot a firearm because of value, and I own 5 Very rare 1855 Pattern Colt Revolving rifles, All but one are used and enjoyed as intended, the one is in such sad shape its not safe to shoot! People tell me all the time i would be nuts to restore it, SOme how hurting it's value ( current value is around $1100 ) vs a working original unrestored, value between $3500 and $50000, depending and Mark and issue numbers and accessories! Hell yea, I'm gonna restore it, and then Im gonna shoot the snot out of it, other wise, what the hell good it it? A fancy wall hanger, I don't need a useless piece of American history hanging on my wall!

 

[Certaindeaf]

You only live once and it'll be high time to stop helicoptering your heirs when you're dead.

 

[nehalemguy]

 

[Andy54Hawken]

After a gunsmith gives it an okay....then yes shoot it.
Cowboy Action Loads are often loaded to Blackpowder specs...so those will not be a problem out of your rifle.

If you are having trouble finding a local gunsmith...While I am not a gunsmith , I do have experience working on and shooting my own 19th century firearms...many of which are approaching 200 years old...I'd be happy to take a look.
Andy

 

[No_Regerts]

To your benefit, the 1886 is a very STRONG action.

 

[L84Cabo]

Seriously ^^^^^ THIS!

Please post some pictures if you can. We'd love to see it.

And my vote is to let a smith take a look at it and then shoot the snot out of it. The fact that it's a family heirloom and won't ever be sold, I probably wouldn't care too much about the value. Moreover, the thought of getting to shoot what was my father's gun, would be far more important to me than the monetary value of it.

That's me though and I completely understand not wanting to compromise the value if that's the way you decide to go.

 

[Argonaut]

I would shoot it with the caveat to use older type light loadings. For decades 45-70 was loaded very light by ammo manufacturers because there are so many old trap doors and rifles not up to modern intense loadings. Ammo like lever Revolution would be a no go for me.........but by using the term "cowboy action" if you are speaking of the light "target" loads used by today's cowboy shooters (as Andy said)..........that would be fine as long as the chamber and barrel are good. We shoot my orignal Civil War 1858 revolver a lot and are waiting for the proper ammo to shoot my 1890's 10 gauge LC Smith.

 

[orygun]

Standard loadings of a 405gr lead bullet @1100-1150fps are going to be safe to shoot in that gun. The 1886 is very strong and is the gun listed for the "second step" of the three levels of loading the 45-70, so it will take more pressure than the standard loadings produce.
That said, I would shoot it with regular production loads, usually marked "safe for all rifles" and have fun. Heck, I'd probably hunt with it on occasion.

 

[jordanka16]

Shooting old guns is a big part of the enjoyment of owning them.

 

[xyzzy]

Due to popular request, some photos! As you can see from the caliber marking, this rifle is a rebore. It was originally a .40-65, but was rebored to .45-70 by the famous Ward Koozer of Oregon; it was also reblued by R&E Arms of Richardson, Texas, circa 1960.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Good looking rifle...
Greene's Gunshop on Whidbey Island may just be the place if you want a gunsmith to check out your rifle.
They are open Thursday-Saturday.
Or...you could wait 'till August 10th-12th and bring the rifle down then and check out the rendezvous as well.
I'll be there with a display of some of my antique guns as well....be that as it may...there will be lots of folks there who would love to see your rifle...
Andy

 

[xyzzy]

Good looking rifle...
Greene's Gunshop on Whidbey Island may just be the place if you want a gunsmith to check out your rifle.
They are open Thursday-Saturday.
Or...you could wait 'till August 10th-12th and bring the rifle down then and check out the rendezvous as well.
I'll be there with a display of some of my antique guns as well....be that as it may...there will be lots of folks there who would love to see your rifle...
Andy

Thanks Andy, I've been meaning to get down to Greene's for some time now. It's only 26 miles away, so I dunno why I haven't been there in the decade that I've been living in Whatcom county.

 

[titsonritz]

I've never heard of 45-70 WCF, 45-70 Government and 40-70 WCF, yes, but not 45-70 WCF, but I no expert on older cartridges, am I missing something?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Winchester at times put that on their rifle barrels that were chambered in .45-70 Government....
Also this cartridge is known as 45 2 1/10 , .45 Sharps ....
Andy

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Howdy gals & gents, before you get too excited about the topic, let me say that my question is about a rifle, not the caliber. (I already am a fan of the caliber.)

I have an original model 1886 Winchester chambered in .45-70 with octagonal barrel which, by its serial number, was manufactured in 1889. My questions in order are:

1. Would I be a complete fool to fire this gun, at least in terms of the effect on its value? I have no plans to sell it, as it was my father's, but I wouldn't want to reduce its value for my own heirs. The barrel and action are both in solid, good shape; this gun was very, very well maintained, and as a longtime gun owner myself I have continued that (albeit in storage, as regards this gun).
   
2. Assuming the answer to the above question were "yes", can it handle modern cowboy-action loads?

I can add more info as to why I'm interested in firing this gun if need be. I would ask, though, please, that if you have nothing to add but judgemental insults, then just don't answer me. I have had mostly bad experiences with commenters on threads here at northwestfirearms being complete jerks along those lines and ruining conversations, so I'm hoping that this will be among those posts that doesn't go that direction. Thank you in advance.

James

Have it checked out and then shoot it!!! I have roughly the equivalent story about this Remington rolling block. It was my great-grandfather's, but I'm the one who had it restored:

 

[nehalemguy]

SHOOT IT!!!

Have it checked out if you think it prudent, but I'd be heading to the range today. Modern factory ammo would be fine in that rifle. Ammo manufactures load down factory ammo for .45-70 and other vintage cartridges because of the great number of these firearms still in existence.

E

 

[xyzzy]

SHOOT IT!!!

Have it checked out if you think it prudent, but I'd be heading to the range today. Modern factory ammo would be fine in that rifle. Ammo manufactures load down factory ammo for .45-70 and other vintage cartridges because of the great number of these firearms still in existence.

E

I'll be getting it out to Custer Sportsmans Club soon. No doubt it will generate some conversation. My older gear & guns always do (a fellow tried to buy my 1970's era spotting scope off me a few months ago!).