44 Special: The Skeeter Load

[DeanMk]

We all know the formula; 7.5 grs. Unique capped with a Lyman 429421 250 gr. cast LSWC
MV is supposed to be 950 from a Model 24 with a 4" barrel.

I'm just curious if anyone's ever loaded this into a Magnum case?
What were your results?
Feel free to get as geeky with the chrono info, lead/tin content and anything else about the load that you want to.
Thanks in advance.

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[Sbarton]

My silhouette match load is similar.
7.3gr of universal under a 205gr lead bullet in a .44 mag case.
I haven't measured the velocity, but it's more than enough for steel silhouettes! Pretty mild shooting out of my browning 92.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Once upon a time I was all about the 44spl Life and IIRC from looking into it you lose +/- 50fps with the same powder charge in a larger case and *APPROXIMATELY* a 10% increase in powder charge will make up for that.

I started to look for that info on line and it triggered my OCD for buying a new gun that I don't need in a caliber I love but have no use for, so I stopped

 

[dangerranger60]

Why would it be different in a Mag case? DR

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Why would it be different in a Mag case? DR

More internal volume for the gasses to expand into before exerting pressure on the base of the bullet. Still going off memory but IIRC some set the bullet +/- 1/10" deeper in the 44 mag case to adjust for that, but that *might* cause other issues with accuracy and bullet crimping. But again, only going off memory

 

[P7M13]

Faster pressure rise, and (in general) gun powder burns more efficiently at higher pressure.

 

[dangerranger60]

More internal volume for the gasses to expand into before exerting pressure on the base of the bullet. Still going off memory but IIRC some set the bullet +/- 1/10" deeper in the 44 mag case to adjust for that, but that *might* cause other issues with accuracy and bullet crimping. But again, only going off memory

With only that 1/10" difference, I doubt anyone could tell the difference. If you were loading to the ragged edge of mag pressure it might make a difference. But at standard pressure the difference between cases would not even show up on all but the most accurate chronograph. DR

 

[DeanMk]

I've heard pushing the bullet farther into the case is similar to increasing the free bore of the gun, and as Vinnie mentioned, this can effect accuracy.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

With only that 1/10" difference, I doubt anyone could tell the difference. If you were loading to the ragged edge of mag pressure it might make a difference. But at standard pressure the difference between cases would not even show up on all but the most accurate chronograph. DR

Like I said, not first hand info, just a bunch of web searches

 

[41mag]

I was a Skeeter fanboi 40 years ago.

 

[dangerranger60]

Like I said, not first hand info, just a bunch of web searches

I shoot a lot of 38 spl/357 mag , so I'll use that as a comparison.
If I took the very hottest 38 spl load, and put it in a 357 mag case, and shot it from a 357 mag gun, I would still have a less than magnum load by 357 mag standards. The extra case space does nothing.
Under lab conditions you might find some variation, but out in the field you would never find it.
Where you might get in trouble with a longer case would be if you were using Black powder. it needs to be held compacted in the case to make it burn from primer to bullet, instead of detonating all at once.
The 44 spl and 44 mag using smokeless powder would be most like the 38 spl/357 mag example. Think about all the smokeless loads that don't fill the case. DR

 

[arakboss]

I shoot a lot of 38 spl/357 mag , so I'll use that as a comparison.
If I took the very hottest 38 spl load, and put it in a 357 mag case, and shot it from a 357 mag gun, I would still have a less than magnum load by 357 mag standards. The extra case space does nothing.
Under lab conditions you might find some variation, but out in the field you would never find it.
Where you might get in trouble with a longer case would be if you were using Black powder. it needs to be held compacted in the case to make it burn from primer to bullet, instead of detonating all at once.
The 44 spl and 44 mag using smokeless powder would be most like the 38 spl/357 mag example. Think about all the smokeless loads that don't fill the case. DR

Somebody mentioned in another thread that if you took a 10mm case and cut it down to 40 S&W length that the 10mm case would have less case capacity due to the thicker case dimensions of the 10mm case. Would that be the same situation if you were to cut down a .357 case to 38spl length?

 

[DeanMk]

I shoot a lot of 38 spl/357 mag , so I'll use that as a comparison.
If I took the very hottest 38 spl load, and put it in a 357 mag case, and shot it from a 357 mag gun, I would still have a less than magnum load by 357 mag standards. The extra case space does nothing.
Under lab conditions you might find some variation, but out in the field you would never find it.
Where you might get in trouble with a longer case would be if you were using Black powder. it needs to be held compacted in the case to make it burn from primer to bullet, instead of detonating all at once.
The 44 spl and 44 mag using smokeless powder would be most like the 38 spl/357 mag example. Think about all the smokeless loads that don't fill the case. DR

Well, first off, the hottest 38 spl. load is the reason the 357 exists in the first place.
Elmer Keith was loading 38 to 1200-1400 MV and Remington picked up on it.
Realizing some of the older guns might not be strong to handle those kinds of pressure, they purposely lengthened the case, not to make room for extra powder, but to ensure that the new 357 couldn't be fired in older 38 guns.
...and btw, The Skeeter load isn't the hottest 44 spl load.
Skeeter had gone to the mag but found it was too powerful for police work.
However, he liked the increased power.
The load he developed offered increased power but in a more controllable fashion.
I know you were just trying to make a comparison, and I appreciate that, but your explanation lead me to think you might not be quite straight on the history of what we're discussing here.
If I'm wrong, then never mind.

 

[DeanMk]

Somebody mentioned in another thread that if you took a 10mm case and cut it down to 40 S&W length that the 10mm case would have less case capacity due to the thicker case dimensions of the 10mm case. Would that be the same situation if you were to cut down a .357 case to 38spl length?

That's interesting, because a .40 S&W is exactly that. A cut down 10mm.
It was originally devised as a target/practice round for Police using the 10mm.

 

[DirectDrive]

I was a Skeeter fanboi 40 years ago.

Skeeter told some good stories, especially when Bill Jordan was involved.

 

[arakboss]

That's interesting, because a .40 S&W is exactly that. A cut down 10mm.
It was originally devised as a target/practice round for Police using the 10mm.

I haven't measured the two, so maybe that info is not accurate?

 

[arakboss]

That's interesting, because a .40 S&W is exactly that. A cut down 10mm.
It was originally devised as a target/practice round for Police using the 10mm.

Here is the thread where is was being discussed.

40 S&W Large Primer Pocket

Any reasons why a person couldn't turn 10mm large primer pocket brass in to 40 S&W brass by trimming it down to 40 S&W length?

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[DeanMk]

I haven't measured the two, so maybe that info is not accurate?

I read that in an article about the .40 S&W a while back, but your post caused me to check, so I went to Wiki.
....seems you may be onto something...

The .40 S&W was developed as a law enforcement cartridge designed to duplicate performance of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's (FBI) reduced-velocity 10mm Auto cartridge which could be retrofitted into medium-frame (9mm size) semi-automatic handguns.

Apologies for the misinfo. It was the way I understood things at the time I posted them.

I did look at the specs for both cases and found the .40 is indeed shorter.
.850" case length & 1.135" OAL, compared to .992" and 1.26" for the 10mm.

 

[dangerranger60]

Well, first off, the hottest 38 spl. load is the reason the 357 exists in the first place.
Elmer Keith was loading 38 to 1200-1400 MV and Remington picked up on it.
Realizing some of the older guns might not be strong to handle those kinds of pressure, they purposely lengthened the case, not to make room for extra powder, but to ensure that the new 357 couldn't be fired in older 38 guns.
...and btw, The Skeeter load isn't the hottest 44 spl load.
Skeeter had gone to the mag but found it was too powerful for police work.
However, he liked the increased power.
The load he developed offered increased power but in a more controllable fashion.
I know you were just trying to make a comparison, and I appreciate that, but your explanation lead me to think you might not be quite straight on the history of what we're discussing here.
If I'm wrong, then never mind.

My point is that putting a hot spl load in a mag case is not going to change the performance of that load. Putting it in a longer case won't change anything.
The OP's question was not about history, but about what happens if I put this load in a longer case?. My answer was just about the performance.

We all know the formula; 7.5 grs. Unique capped with a Lyman 429421 250 gr. cast LSWC
MV is supposed to be 950 from a Model 24 with a 4" barrel.

I'm just curious if anyone's ever loaded this into a Magnum case?
What were your results?
Feel free to get as geeky with the chrono info, lead/tin content and anything else about the load that you want to.
Thanks in advance.

If you fired this load in a mag gun, you will get spl performance . It will probably get you a great general purpose load.
One of my favorite loads is a 225 gr LSWC in a 45 colt at around 950 fps. Its not hard on the gun, not hard on my arthritic wrists, and will punch through most anything I have shot with it.
If I had a suitable 250 gr mold it would be more of a apples to apples comparison. But it's just a great load. DR