1911 Barrel problems..

[wayoutwest]

So I found this when I was cleaning last night, it came out of my I have zero complaints or problems Norinco. Not being very familiar with the ins' and outs of the 1911, still ok to shoot it while shopping for a new barrel or no F'in way.

Any recommendations for a decent without breaking the bank "drop in" or at least "semi drop in" replacement? How much fitting is to be expected when replacing a barrel? Any pointers? OR is it something I should have someone with 1911 skills replace.

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[Keane]

I'm not sure I would shoot it with that broken ear. I suspect it woudl cause more problems.

As for the replacement barrel: There are a number of drop ins that are good (Storm Lake is a good one!), but i would have a pro install it. That is a weird break I believe, and is probably caused by some sort of timing issue that I'd want a good gunsmith to solve before it becomes a bigger problem.

 

[CalTech]

Not safe to shoot! This probably broke because the barrel was not fit properly, or the recoil spring was really weak. No offense to any members here, but I would post over on the M1911.org forum. Those guys live and breathe 1911's. They have helped me a number of times. Also, fitting a replacement barrel to a 1911 is not for amateurs. Especially a gun that may not be "made to spec".

 

[Kentucky Windage]

So I found this when I was cleaning last night, it came out of my I have zero complaints or problems Norinco. Not being very familiar with the ins' and outs of the 1911, still ok to shoot it while shopping for a new barrel or no F'in way.

Any recommendations for a decent without breaking the bank "drop in" or at least "semi drop in" replacement? How much fitting is to be expected when replacing a barrel? Any pointers? OR is it something I should have someone with 1911 skills replace.

I have seen this before.

Do you have pictures of the receiver (preferably uncleaned) that show where the lugs have been making contact with the receiver?

 

[wichaka]

There was another thread on here about Norinco's...and as I posted in that thread...if they implode, it will be because of improper barrel fit/timing.

Need I say more.

If the damaged barrel is still within spec., a check of the timing would be the first thing.

Also check on the frame and slide specs as well.

If ya need some help, come on up and I'll check it over, no charge.





P.S. I'm also one of the mods over on M1911.org

 

[PX4WA]

this is what poor barrel fit does...

if you don't know what you're doing, get a pro to fit your new barrel... otherwise you will see this again after a thousand rounds or so...

 

[Kentucky Windage]

this is what poor barrel fit does...

if you don't know what you're doing, get a pro to fit your new barrel... otherwise you will see this again after a thousand rounds or so...

It could be the receiver too but he has not shown a picture of that so we don't know. Or, it could be both.

It sounds like his Norinco came out of spec from the factory.

 

[PX4WA]

It could be the receiver too but he has not shown a picture of that so we don't know. Or, it could be both.

It sounds like his Norinco came out of spec from the factory.

That is true. but if the barrel was fitted to an out of spec receiver it should work to a degree..

So it may likely be both....

 

[wayoutwest]

It could be the receiver too but he has not shown a picture of that so we don't know. Or, it could be both.

It sounds like his Norinco came out of spec from the factory.

OK so what am I looking for in the receiver, gladly put up pictures but of what?

 

[PX4WA]

the area of the receiver where the barrel sits on and that part that is broken sits on...

when the barrel unlocks as the slide moves back, the barrel pivots on the link pin and tilts down and at the same time keeps moving back...

at this point the back of the lower lugs (what was broken) impacts the receiver and the barrel stops moving..

as the slide closes, the barrel again pivots and rises up and the upper lugs engages with the slide and locks up the slide. during this motion, the front of the lower lugs impacts the pin and stops the forward motion of the barrel.

in a properly fitted slide the energy is absorbed both by the upper lugs and lower lugs equally and both sides of the lower lugs are even.

in your case, one of the lower lugs was likely forward compared to the other so it received most of the energy when the slide closed and eventually fractured...

bottom line, poor fitting, or lack thereof leads to barrel failure eventually...

I'm no gunsmith, just a guy who spend a few weekends building a 1911... so any experts out there, correct me please....

 

[Kentucky Windage]

That is true. but if the barrel was fitted to an out of spec receiver it should work to a degree..

If it is the receiver (there is a high probability that it is) the same problem will occur over and over.

The gun more than likely displayed signs of the issue but he didn't know what he was looking for when he was looking the gun over so he probably thought it was normal wear etc.

It's been said before so this will sound familiar - just because it's running does not mean it's running right. If it's not running right, it's only a matter of time before failure occurs.

the area of the receiver where the barrel sits on and that part that is broken sits on...

when the barrel unlocks as the slide moves back, the barrel pivots on the link pin and tilts down and at the same time keeps moving back...

at this point the back of the lower lugs (what was broken) impacts the receiver and the barrel stops moving..

as the slide closes, the barrel again pivots and rises up and the upper lugs engages with the slide and locks up the slide. during this motion, the front of the lower lugs impacts the pin and stops the forward motion of the barrel.

in a properly fitted slide the energy is absorbed both by the upper lugs and lower lugs equally and both sides of the lower lugs are even.

in your case, one of the lower lugs was likely forward compared to the other so it received most of the energy when the slide closed and eventually fractured...

bottom line, poor fitting, or lack thereof leads to barrel failure eventually...

I'm no gunsmith, just a guy who spend a few weekends building a 1911... so any experts out there, correct me please....

That's a decent summary and a good theory.

Pictures of the receiver will tell us what went on without guessing. You will be able to see the contact that the lugs are making with the impact surface of the reciever.

 

[wichaka]

There generally isn't a whole lot of love put into Norinco barrel fitting.

There are tests to see exactly what is going on with the frame, barrel etc.

See here for the tests;

<broken link removed>

 

[PX4WA]

There generally isn't a whole lot of love put into Norinco barrel fitting.

There are tests to see exactly what is going on with the frame, barrel etc.

See here for the tests;

<broken link removed>

This is a great link. exactly the article I used when I was building my 1911

 

[wayoutwest]

If it is the receiver (there is a high probability that it is) the same problem will occur over and over.

The gun more than likely displayed signs of the issue but he didn't know what he was looking for when he was looking the gun over so he probably thought it was normal wear etc.

It's been said before so this will sound familiar - just because it's running does not mean it's running right. If it's not running right, it's only a matter of time before failure occurs.

This says alot.

Got some pictures, not the easiest ones to get but hopefully they show the wear your looking for.

 

[wayoutwest]

and if it makes any difference here are a couple more

 

[PX4WA]

hard to be 100% but I see some peening of your upper lugs...

this would indicate poor barrel fit to begin with

honestly, I'm not sure it's worth dropping 200$ on a replacement barrel (and smithing) considering the frame looks like machining has something left to be desired...

 

[Kentucky Windage]

This says alot.

Got some pictures, not the easiest ones to get but hopefully they show the wear your looking for.

One picture would of worked but as they say, the more the merrier.

You can plainly see that the top of your lugs have been beating themselves silly against the receivers verticle impact surface. It was only a matter of time before this happened. If you just toss a new barrel in, you are going to end up with the same result, or worse.

You could give the receiver what is known as a bowtie or butterfly cut to give relief to the top of the lugs which will ensure that the strongest part of the lugs makes solid contact with the impact surface.

However, knowing what you know now and after seeing the results of running an out of spec 1911, you could just get a new receiver or...a new gun. I don't know what you paid for the Norinco so I suppose you would have to work out if the cost of a new barrel and receiver work is worth it to you. If you don't have the tools and/or don't know how to work on the receiver, don't. If you want to play around with a receiver and use it as a learning piece, go a head but still get a new receiver.

 

[wichaka]

Some time to measure things out would be worth it, along with checking on barrel timing and overall wear patterns.

What's the wear look like on the slide stop pin?

 

[wayoutwest]

One picture would of worked but as they say, the more the merrier.

You can plainly see that the top of your lugs have been beating themselves silly against the receivers verticle impact surface. It was only a matter of time before this happened. If you just toss a new barrel in, you are going to end up with the same result, or worse.

So is this the part of the receiver your talking about?

I got the Norinco is trade about 5-6 years ago for a complete AR lower, I dont object to putting some money into it, IF I know its not a sinking ship, I also know I dont have the know how to measure, fit the barrel/lugs/link etc.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

So is this the part of the receiver your talking about?

I got the Norinco is trade about 5-6 years ago for a complete AR lower, I dont object to putting some money into it, IF I know its not a sinking ship, I also know I dont have the know how to measure, fit the barrel/lugs/link etc.

If you look in this picture of your receiver you can see where the top of the lugs have been smashing themselves against the impact surface. When the barrel is in the gun the top of the lugs will be oriented down. Looking at the receivers impact surface, you see very pronounced impact points from the lugs - look at the bottom of the impact surface in the, "Bowl."

As Mr. wichaka suggested and as many others will suggest, check that the rest of your receiver is in spec.

Do you have a picture of the slide stop from this reciever?