Zimmerman Trial: Tired of media bias? See gun-friendly legal coverage

[U201491]

Wait, wait!

I have a better question.

If someone is attacking you, never mind what led up to it.

Would you beat them off?

(I'm sorry, sometimes I just can't help myself. I just go for the lowest common denominator joke)

As we figured, your moral clock broke. Not really much humor there.

 

[ConcealedCarrie]

The prosecution brought a weak case. Reasonable doubt is a very high legal standard. They had to prove guilt and failed.

This doesn't mean I think GZ did things correctly.

Massad Ayoob is very pleased with the verdict. If it's good enough for him...

 

[michaels]

Come on taku.

It was a legit question.

 

[MikeE]

Obligation? "First do no harm" is commonly ascribed to the Hippocratic Oath for doctors. MikeE, please tell me how you would apply "first do no harm" under this hypothetical situation below:

You are on the ground on your back and a man (of any color) is on top of you punching your face and bouncing your head off the concrete. You have a concealed pistol which you have access to, what do you MikeE do.

What led up to it and what happens after is not a subject of the question. I am asking what you would do right then and how you apply "first do no harm".

But my point was actually about the moments leading up to the encounter. Once it's on, people are gonna do what they have to do, like Zimmerman.With often disastrous results
Being armed, for me, means trying to 'manage unknown contacts' (South Narc's term) so that I can avoid the conflict - the best fight being one that does not happen. The progression I learned through training w/ PSTC courses was something like this:
Awareness
Avoidance
De-escalation
Control
Neutralize
While the handgun training emphasizes the last - neutralize - cases like Trayvon/Zimmerman really show me how how critical it is to train on the first four parts of the progression instead of just acknowledging them. So how do we do that?

 

[oknow]

Come on taku.

It was a legit question.

Get real
That is as real a question as "if I wash it a dozen times would you s**k it" yea s sick shot at humor. Keep your real questions on topic.

 

[erudne]

As we figured, your moral clock broke. Not really much humor there.

Taku your mind set is your business but you may find it a difficult thing to justify in the real world.
Travon would not have been where he was if he had not been expelled from school for violent behavior he had escaped prosecution before due to his age, he felt entitled, he was high on drugs and when he doubeled back to attack Zimmerman in the dark, broke his nose and jumped on him and continued to beat Martin he became a THUG. Travon was an entitled THUG full of manufactured Black Rage and attacked a man with deadly force creating a Darwinian Moment he did not walk away from.
The reason your panties are in a twist is that a young fit thug ambushed a unfit 'jew', got in the first strike and ended up dead because the VICTIM was armed, thus introducing the element of equality into the struggle, The "New School" failed against the Creepy *** Cracka

 

[U201491]

Taku your mind set is your business but you may find it a difficult thing to justify in the real world.
Travon would not have been where he was if he had not been expelled from school for violent behavior he had escaped prosecution before due to his age, he felt entitled, he was high on drugs and when he doubeled back to attack Zimmerman in the dark, broke his nose and jumped on him and continued to beat Martin he became a THUG. Travon was an entitled THUG full of manufactured Black Rage and attacked a man with deadly force creating a Darwinian Moment he did not walk away from.
The reason your panties are in a twist is that a young fit thug ambushed a unfit 'jew', got in the first strike and ended up dead because the VICTIM was armed, thus introducing the element of equality into the struggle, The "New School" failed against the Creepy *** Cracka

ROFLMAO, so now Zimmerman isn't a Hispanic, when did he suddenly become a Jew ?
You really need to check your source of drugs.
The sucking sounds of libs coming out of the woodwork is great.....
Just cant help themselves

 

[U201491]

Come on taku.

It was a legit question.

No it was a worn out Alinsky question

 

[Trlsmn]

But my point was actually about the moments leading up to the encounter. Once it's on, people are gonna do what they have to do, like Zimmerman.With often disastrous results
Being armed, for me, means trying to 'manage unknown contacts' (South Narc's term) so that I can avoid the conflict - the best fight being one that does not happen. The progression I learned through training w/ PSTC courses was something like this:
Awareness
Avoidance
De-escalation
Control
Neutralize
While the handgun training emphasizes the last - neutralize - cases like Trayvon/Zimmerman really show me how how critical it is to train on the first four parts of the progression instead of just acknowledging them. So how do we do that?

MikeE you did not answer my question, I'll ask it again:

You are on the ground on your back and a man (of any color) is on top of you punching your face and bouncing your head off the concrete. You have a concealed pistol which you have access to, what do you, MikeE, do. Forget about what led up to the altercation, I want to know what MikeE would do in the situation I asked.

 

[Father of four]

...

It's about the right to defend yourself against an attacker. Nothing more, nothing less.

That sums it up for me.

 

[Father of four]

MikeE you did not answer my question, I'll ask it again:

You are on the ground on your back and a man (of any color) is on top of you punching your face and bouncing your head off the concrete. You have a concealed pistol which you have access to, what do you,....

If I felt that my life was in danger I would shoot the guy.

 

[MikeE]

MikeE you did not answer my question, I'll ask it again:

You are on the ground on your back and a man (of any color) is on top of you punching your face and bouncing your head off the concrete. You have a concealed pistol which you have access to, what do you, MikeE, do. Forget about what led up to the altercation, I want to know what MikeE would do in the situation I asked.

I did answer your question. Unless all of my self defense instructors are full of crap - context is #1 - avoiding the altercation to begin with.
However, since I'm a nice guy, and to comply with your little reductionist debating point:

I'd try a buck and roll followed by a hammer fist to the groin. I'd be worried about a gun grab, something Zimmerman was not worried about, I guess.

 

[Father of four]

I do not care if someone got out of their car. It is their right to do so.
I do not care if someone is a racist. It is their right to be so.
I do not care if someone saw a black kid, or any race of a kid for that matter and thought he/she may be ready to commit a crime and followed them. Its their right to think and do so.
I do not care if someone talked or even argued with another person. It is there right to do so.

But if a person is physically attacked or feels that there is imminent physical attack coming within seconds, I think a person has a right to protect and defend themselves. And that person has the right to use deadly force if needed to defend/protect themselves.

All the marches, the riots is plain nonsense to me. We have a right to defend ourselves. If Travon felt threatened then he had the right to protect himself. I think Travon was a young thug who was living his thug life and he messed around and picked a fight with the wrong person and got killed for it. Happens all the time.

Everyone should pick their poison wisely. It might get'ya.

 

[MikeE]

I do not care if someone got out of their car. It is their right to do so.
I do not care if someone is a racist. It is their right to be so.
I do not care if someone saw a black kid, or any race of a kid for that matter and thought he/she may be ready to commit a crime and followed them. Its their right to think and do so.
I do not care if someone talked or even argued with another person. It is there right to do so.

But if a person is physically attacked or feels that there is imminent physical attack coming within seconds, I think a person has a right to protect and defend themselves. And that person has the right to use deadly force if needed to defend/protect themselves.

All the marches, the riots is plain nonsense to me. We have a right to defend ourselves. If Travon felt threatened then he had the right to protect himself. I think Travon was a young thug who was living his thug life and he messed around and picked a fight with the wrong person and got killed for it. Happens all the time.

Everyone should pick their poison wisely. It might get'ya.

Zimmerman could have gotten most of the info he needed as a neighborhood watch guy by staying inside his car. Maybe a little follow up the next day. Then he would have done the duty he felt he needed to do, without getting anyone killed, & without wrecking his own life.

 

[Father of four]

Maybe. Maybe he wasn't trying to get anybody killed. Maybe he was doing his job and when he was attacked he defended himself.

 

[DMax]

I did answer your question. Unless all of my self defense instructors are full of crap - context is #1 - avoiding the altercation to begin with.
However, since I'm a nice guy, and to comply with your little reductionist debating point:

I'd try a buck and roll followed by a hammer fist to the groin. I'd be worried about a gun grab, something Zimmerman was not worried about, I guess.

You would be guessing wrong

You might want to go read the court z transcript

 

[Father of four]

A person in their home can hear a strange noise at night, grabs their firearm and goes to check it out.
A person hears a noise outside their home and grabs their firearm and goes check it out.
A cops gets a call from dispatch to check something out, the officer has their firearm on them and goes to check it out.
A security guard hears a noise, or an alarm goes off, he may or may not have a firearm and goes to check it out.

Zimmerman who is the neighboorhoods watchman see someone he is suspicious of, has a fireman on him and goes to check it out.


Everything above seems right to me. They all have a right to check it out and not be made to stay in a building or car for their safety.

 

[Father of four]

Anyways I'm done. Let people believe what they want.

 

[Squidly]

MikeE, you can cower in your car for your own safety in your own neighborhood? I won't. You get what you allow.

 

[U201491]

Everyone should pick their poison wisely. It might get'ya..

Wise words a few libs should heed. And good research reveals many things