Wolves in the crosshairs

[Who The F R U]

Wake up and smell the coffee, you as gun owners aren't helped by the wolf, whether you hunt or not, and whether you're a rancher or not.

Tell that to my Daughter and her Arctic wolf pup she has........


Spent three years fighting the coyotes out here eating our animal's.
They finally got smart or dead and moved up the valley.
Only one has been back in a year and a half and that one never left the property.

Live stock is the same as any other property you need to guard it.
If you don't and it disappears that's on you.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Tell that to my Daughter and her Arctic wolf pup she has........


Spent three years fighting the coyotes out here eating our animal's.
They finally got smart or dead and moved up the valley.
Only one has been back in a year and a half and that one never left the property.

Live stock is the same as any other property you need to guard it.
If you don't and it disappears that's on you.


View attachment 308714

Try that with a wolf in Oregon smart guy.
After you're in Jail and your fancy rifle gets confiscated, have your lawyer contact us here at the forum and maybe we can take up a collection for your fines and legal fees.

The issue isn't wolves near as much as it is their ESA protection. Especially considering they're far from the wolf species native to Oregon, which was closer in size to your daughter's Arctic wolf.
Which I suspect is a hybrid. Most are, even in the wild.

 

[mjbskwim]

Tell that to my Daughter and her Arctic wolf pup she has........


Spent three years fighting the coyotes out here eating our animal's.
They finally got smart or dead and moved up the valley.
Only one has been back in a year and a half and that one never left the property.

Live stock is the same as any other property you need to guard it.
If you don't and it disappears that's on you.


View attachment 308714

This is just asinine to say "that's on you".
How do you protect 24/7 when you have a few thousand acres? Hire guards? Make no profit ?
You have to have some assurance that you animals will be somewhat safe. Farmers need to be able to kill predators that threaten their livelihood
Washington and Oregon won't let them
And I would probably tell your daughter plenty what I think about people owning wolfs and hybrids
I think it's rediculous myself
Too many cant handle a regular breed let alone a wild breed

 

[Oregonhunter5]

There are people that own wolfs. Hybrid. With fencing up and on the roof of the pen. What do you do, stare at the wolf through the chain link fence, and say awesome, I have a wolf?
I would rather own one of them versus a pit bull though.

 

[mjbskwim]

There are people that own wolfs. Hybrid. With fencing up and on the roof of the pen. What do you do, stare at the wolf through the chain link fence, and say awesome, I have a wolf?
I would rather own one of them versus a pit bull though.

Oh no, here comes the pit bull pissin match

Most folks shouldn't own pits either

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Oh no, here comes the pit bull pissin match

Most folks shouldn't own pits either

Lol!!!!
I don't give a crap about what I started. Again! Lol!
Look long and hard at who would own a pit bull, and there's your answer.

 

[maddog]

Lots of conflicting views on this topic. The simple fact is wolves are a natural predator in that ecosystem and have their natural place on public lands. I know ranchers make a living raising and selling beef, but they are renting public lands to feed their cattle for (as of 2015) $1.69 per head per month <broken link removed>

So some loses are to be expected. They don't own the lands they feed them on, we all do. But with modern management by the States, these loses can be somewhat controlled.
Montana reports decrease in wolves, attacks on livestock

And some predation is to be expected but not near as much as is being cried out. This article is based on research done by scientists using GPS collars on both cows and wolves in the same geographical area and is very informative
Wolves' Economic Bite On Cattle Goes Way Beyond Predation

Ranchers crying "foul" need to manage their herds better. Wolves are not going to be leaving public lands in the near future. It is what it is.

 

[bbbass]

Ranchers in E. Oregon routinely get denied by the Fish n Fuzz investigators. They say that it can't be determined that it was a wolf attack. Total BS.

Our game levels have dropped to almost nothing since the wolves appeared. Hunting here is now a waste of time and money.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Lots of conflicting views on this topic. The simple fact is wolves are a natural predator in that ecosystem and have their natural place on public lands. I know ranchers make a living raising and selling beef, but they are renting public lands to feed their cattle for (as of 2015) $1.69 per head per month <broken link removed>
Ranchers crying "foul" need to manage their herds better. Wolves are not going to be leaving public lands in the near future. It is what it is.

So because rents are low, predation is not only okay, but should be expected?
Wow. I wonder how inner city people would feel about it, if because public housing rents are kept low, that city and federal officials told them it's okay if the local dogs bite their kids regularly. You know, if they don't want their kids bitten, they should go buy their own place instead of renting public housing.
How freaking ridiculous.

Or like your 3rd article states, that their kids being undernourished was to be expected because they have to spend more time watching for feral dogs rather than sitting down to eat their lunch in peace.
You know, don't do anything about the feral dogs, they're just doing what comes naturally.

Maybe if you had concentrated on the 2nd article more, you'd realize that things go much better for the wolves, the wildlife and the ranchers when wolves are dropped from protected species status, and ranchers and hunters are allowed to control their numbers.

SMDH

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Lots of conflicting views on this topic. The simple fact is wolves are a natural predator in that ecosystem and have their natural place on public lands. I know ranchers make a living raising and selling beef, but they are renting public lands to feed their cattle for (as of 2015) $1.69 per head per month <broken link removed>

So some loses are to be expected. They don't own the lands they feed them on, we all do. But with modern management by the States, these loses can be somewhat controlled.
Montana reports decrease in wolves, attacks on livestock

And some predation is to be expected but not near as much as is being cried out. This article is based on research done by scientists using GPS collars on both cows and wolves in the same geographical area and is very informative
Wolves' Economic Bite On Cattle Goes Way Beyond Predation

Ranchers crying "foul" need to manage their herds better. Wolves are not going to be leaving public lands in the near future. It is what it is.

It's obvious you don't know much about ranching...

 

[thorborg]

Doesn't matter if it's flora or fauna, once "Man" substantially alters either outside of natural selection, everything changes.
I can leave wolves alone, but if one hurts me, my family, or kills my cow, wolf dies. last on earth or not.
We are millennia's from putting natural selection into the box.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Lots of conflicting views on this topic. The simple fact is wolves are a natural predator in that ecosystem and have their natural place on public lands. I know ranchers make a living raising and selling beef, but they are renting public lands to feed their cattle for (as of 2015) $1.69 per head per month <broken link removed>

The wolves in question are NOT a natural predator in the lower 48 states. The natural predator was the timber wolf, weighing about 100 pounds, and not really a match for a 1500 pound hereford. The wolves in question are Canadian grey wolves, which run more like 200 pounds and are evolved to prey on bison and moose. They are an invasive species and should NOT be introduced where domestic livestock, elk, and deer are the prevalent prey.

Also, don't fall for the AR spin about ranchers receiving welfare in the form of grazing rights. Grazing rights are attached to a base property, which must be bought. When that base property is bought the grazing rights are priced in, so the monthly rent is on top of the purchase price of those grazing rights. $1.69 per month doesn't sound like much. That's why the AR zealots always state it that way. For 1000 head of cattle that's $1690.00 per month to use rights you've already bought.

And don't assume that all ranchers are operating on "rented public land". My extended family owns about 10,000 acres in the Maupin area, where they grow wheat and raise cattle. They've owned that land since 1870. They don't rent public land. Their attitude is that it's their land, and if the state owns the wolves (as it claims it legally does), then they'd like the state to keep its pets off their property, and to not allow those pets to eat cattle and sheep which belong to someone else.

So some loses are to be expected. They don't own the lands they feed them on, we all do. But with modern management by the States, these loses can be somewhat controlled.
Montana reports decrease in wolves, attacks on livestock

Again, you assume too much when you say, "They don't own the lands they feed them on, we all do." No, you don't, even though you often act like you do. As it is, they have to put up with shot up signs, cut fences, dumped garbage, trespassing, poaching, and government bureaucrats telling them what to do with their own land. Now you want to tell them they can't protect their own livestock on their own property. Maybe you've never seen a calf being eaten by coyotes as it was being born. Maybe you've never seen a cow suffering after having it's udder shredded by wolves, or its rear end eaten out while it lays there bawling. It's more than just economics. Ranchers care about their animals. This is why they are happy to have me come over periodically with my AR and my electronic caller and thin the predator population.

And some predation is to be expected but not near as much as is being cried out. This article is based on research done by scientists using GPS collars on both cows and wolves in the same geographical area and is very informative
Wolves' Economic Bite On Cattle Goes Way Beyond Predation

Well, that right there does it for me. A couple of college professors who have a few months experience around ranching have come down from the mountain top to enlighten the poor ranchers who have 100 years of experience on their land about the habits of predators around livestock. Those cattle are just dying of boredom and the poor unwitting wolf or coyote comes along to clean up the carcass and gets blamed for murder. Yep, that's the ticket.

Ranchers crying "foul" need to manage their herds better. Wolves are not going to be leaving public lands in the near future. It is what it is.

Yeah, it is what it is. The same conditions that allow shot up signs, cut fences, dumped garbage, trespassing, and poaching also allow for extracurricular control of predators, and human nature being what it is, there's no doubt that at some point at least some wolves will be leaving this plane of existence sooner or later. Environmentalist fantasies are nice, but then there's the real world.

 

[Goosebrown]

If they attack cattle shoot them and dump them in the river.

 

[Who The F R U]

There are people that own wolfs. Hybrid. With fencing up and on the roof of the pen. What do you do, stare at the wolf through the chain link fence, and say awesome, I have a wolf?
I would rather own one of them versus a pit bull though.

The Wolf lives in the house with us and our 2 German Shepherds.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Well let's see some pics! I love wolves. Dead or alive.

 

[maddog]

I knew I was going to get flamed when I posted. But it's not the old west anymore and times have changed, cattlemen don't provide the industry they once did. We need to manage the wolves as I stated in my second paragraph. And grazing cattle on public lands exposes them to predation that needs to be expected.

And I'm not an environmentalist. Conservationist maybe. And we are talking cows, not little girls and boys, right? And I did say public lands, right?

I humbly apologize for the vandalism you and your family, and to all other landowners, have received at the hands of irresponsible fools. There was a time I could hunt private land without permission. If a gate was open, leave it open, if it was closed then close it behind you. But those times are long past.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

I knew I was going to get flamed when I posted. But it's not the old west anymore and times have changed, cattlemen don't provide the industry they once did. We need to manage the wolves as I stated in my second paragraph. And grazing cattle on public lands exposes them to predation that needs to be expected.

And I'm not an environmentalist. Conservationist maybe. And we are talking cows, not little girls and boys, right? And I did say public lands, right?

I humbly apologize for the vandalism you and your family, and to all other landowners, have received at the hands of irresponsible fools. There was a time I could hunt private land without permission. If a gate was open, leave it open, if it was closed then close it behind you. But those times are long past.

It's all good! We can disagree. But come spend some quality time with ranchers and see things as they really are. That's all.

 

[PaulB47]

They don't own the lands they feed them on, we all do.

Well, the government does. Not the same thing...

I don't mind that there are some wolves around. I just don't want that many of them, and I don't want people prosecuted for shooting them. Let the ranchers deal with them as they please. And hey, it wouldn't hurt for the federal government to pay attention to the Constitution once in a while (wolves won't be found mentioned in it).

 

[JRuby]

about cut fences there are to be no new fencrs on some areas like Northside only to maintain existing fence lines but guess what there are always new femces and not put up by the USFS. Guess what the ranchers arent playing fair either. Those new fences need to be cut to shreds iny opinion.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I knew I was going to get flamed when I posted. But it's not the old west anymore and times have changed, cattlemen don't provide the industry they once did. We need to manage the wolves as I stated in my second paragraph. And grazing cattle on public lands exposes them to predation that needs to be expected.

That is the whole point. WE are not allowed to manage wolves. And when we try we end up with injunctions and legal battles in our lap. More taxpayer money and time wrapped in court costs and delays.
I will give Washington one thing. They are proving to the wolf advocates and environmental groups what the result of inadequate management looks like. It looks like a dead pack of wolves. Not one or two. The entire pack.

I wish ODFW had those kinds of stones.