Why Can't I Shoot a Semi-Auto???

[Boyandhisdogs]

When you're going left with the Glock, how fast are you shooting? Are you unconsciously slapping the trigger? Are you shooting it from the reset or doing the full trigger pull? Are your fingers short so that even though you might be using the pad you're hitting the trigger from the side?

Both fast and slow, but I was not paying attention to the reset, I think I was shooting it from the full trigger pull.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

Both fast and slow, but I was not paying attention to the reset, I think I was shooting it from the full trigger pull.

Try it from the reset and see what happens. Grip it like it's trying to take a bite out of your face and press that trigger straight back.

 

[bluesargent97]

Wow! Great ideas here.

 

[Mikej]

Agreed. I think the pie chart is so popular because its quick and easy to share, and tempting because it offers quick and easy answers. I do believe that I am choking/milking the .45 because I can feel myself doing it. In that case the chart is right but with the Glock I'll have to do some dry firing to see if I can replicate the issue.

Here is the article if anyone is curious:

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Why The Pie Chart is Junk Science

No one knows from whence it came and its conclusions are dubious, at best.

www.shootingillustrated.com

Kinda funny that the article skips explaining why the low left issue is bunk? Not that I disagree with the article. That chart did get me thinking about, and adjusting my grip. And I've noticed over the years since that many people that CAN get a decent group have the same issue with shooting low left. So, who has the answer to those of us that can get 2" groups, but low and left? Say, at 35'?

 

[10mm]

My experience is pistols like a push forward with the strong hand, pull back with the weak hand. My style involves a fair amount of isometric pressure during this technique. I do also tend to hold pistols at a lower chest height than revolvers and tuck my head down more to line up the sights. I prefer a fairly high grip with either. But I have a messed-up elbow and bad shoulder on my dominant side, and cross dominant eye to boot. So my personal form is kinda funky. Don't let 'em dog ya too harshly on the pie chart. It shows that you spent at least some time on trying to fix the problem yourself before asking the forum for advice. Interesting thread, and a great posting!

ETA: Perhaps also try using the center of first pad of trigger finger. When shooting a small DAO revolver, many people use the first crease to pull the trigger.

 

[boattail]

I'm a revolver guy and when I had to shoot semi auto a few things helped me. First was to do what *10mm* says and push and pull with your hands to lock it in better. Second was to have a grip that had my wrists locked at the end of travel downward when I was aiming at the target. That helped to put the sights back on target after firing. Having that "stop" in your wrist helped me to get back on target quickly.

It worked for me and there are dozens of officers that will attest to my accuracy at putting Simunition rounds into their butts during our active shooter training sessions. I was a roll player and got great training at staying calm under fire. Unfortunately for me I was always the bad guy and shot first. I never got to reverse the roll and play the good guy......still a hoot and great training to go through.

 

[roseburger]

It worked for me and there are dozens of officers that will attest to my accuracy at putting Simunition rounds into their butts during our active shooter training sessions.

Why were you shooting at their butts?

 

[saxon]

one can have the finger on the trigger correctly but still be off on grip, causing it to shoot one way or the other.

 

[boattail]

Why were you shooting at their butts?

As a roll player we were instructed to aim for legs and butts. They had vests on so body shots would be useless. We were instructed not to do head shots for this one reason.....a shot to the head is a kill shot and they did not want the officers to get psyched out by a kill shot from us. They wanted them hit and stinging to keep them going and to focus on stopping the threat.

I was playing in the hard corner one scenario and my instructions were to only pick up my gun if the officers entering the room never looked at me. Look at me I stayed still, gun hidden....miss me and I unloaded on them. I had three Lt's and above in this group and the first one ran right past me. I picked up my gun and the second man entered and looked me right in the eyes from four feet away with his gun down at his side. I took aim right between his eyes then leaned over and put a round on the third guys leg whizzing my round past the second guys head. I followed the rules. The second guy dumped two mags in me at point blank range...not in the rules. At the end of the scenario I confronted that second guy and told him "you were dead and you know it". He denied it was him but even though all I could see through his mask was his eyes it was him for sure.

We had another scenario where my Sgt. hid behind the car door and smiled at me through the glass. I put one on his nose and forehead and wiped that smile off his face behind the glass. That same class we had marking rounds and I ran a zipper line up one officer from his ankles to his neck in a line. It took me several classes to finally relax and get good...I took a lot of rounds to the hands and legs that I will never forget but it was worth it.

After every group was done they debriefed and I always listened in as the officers were walking away from the shoot house....so many times I heard "who the F is that guy...he is killing us!" Once, they identified me and they ganged up on me on the last scenario of the day and hit me in waves. I took my kill shot and went down and they continued to shoot me. I had 8 mags dumped into the back of my thigh as revenge. I was bloody and could barely walk out on my own....but I smiled and shook their hands and told them "I'll be back!"

The officers take these trainings as real...they really get into them and taking a head shot takes away the drive to continue on, they know they are out of the real fight.

 

[bp15705]

I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have a Glock 19 (9mm) and a 1911 (Full size, .45) and I can't shoot either one worth a darn. I'd guess about 70% of my shots end up going significantly to the left. I can't tell what I am doing differently with the ones that do land on target other than shooting "more carefully", though I still miss when I think I am being careful. With the 9mm it is directly left, with the .45 is is more down-left. Never off to the right. I shoot rifles and revolvers pretty well, I even shoot my little snubby 442 significantly better than either one of my automatics that are so popular with target shooters and the tactical crowd.

With both autos I hold them in two hands, thumbs forward grip, pressing the trigger with the pad of my finger like you would on a rifle. I shoot revolvers with the finger joint but that feels very odd on anything else. I have tried dry firing both guns with a laser and my dry fire trigger pull is fine, but something is happening out there on the range with live fire. I have seen that pistol correction chart and it makes sense for the .45 because I do notice myself squeezing the gun as it goes off but I have no idea what I am doing wrong with the Glock.

Here is the chart for those who are not familiar:

View attachment 2225447

NRA bASICS to shoot a pistol 101 at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

good place to start.. The basics, grip, stance, trigger control, aiming.

 

[joshcannon495]

I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have a Glock 19 (9mm) and a 1911 (Full size, .45) and I can't shoot either one worth a darn. I'd guess about 70% of my shots end up going significantly to the left. I can't tell what I am doing differently with the ones that do land on target other than shooting "more carefully", though I still miss when I think I am being careful. With the 9mm it is directly left, with the .45 is is more down-left. Never off to the right. I shoot rifles and revolvers pretty well, I even shoot my little snubby 442 significantly better than either one of my automatics that are so popular with target shooters and the tactical crowd.

With both autos I hold them in two hands, thumbs forward grip, pressing the trigger with the pad of my finger like you would on a rifle. I shoot revolvers with the finger joint but that feels very odd on anything else. I have tried dry firing both guns with a laser and my dry fire trigger pull is fine, but something is happening out there on the range with live fire. I have seen that pistol correction chart and it makes sense for the .45 because I do notice myself squeezing the gun as it goes off but I have no idea what I am doing wrong with the Glock.

Here is the chart for those who are not familiar:

View attachment 2225447

You're not alone bud. The first time I shot a Glock I was really embarrassed my ex could outshoot me all day long . You just have to let the trigger and recoil surprise you . It's a mental thing . Think of something that makes you angry or depressed and realize you're not really afraid of anything . I hit the mark every time I do that . Funny story I was at a range and this weirdo came and started shooting next to me . We both didn't like each other . I was ringing the small steel spinning swinging target over and over again lol. It was so strange . Its purely mental . Just let the recoil surprise you and just think about how safe the activity is and just relax and have fun . That's just my experience. Hope it helps bud

 

[Cerberus Group]

Shooting is simple.

Hold the handgun as tight as a hammer while driving a nail.
Learn proper sight alignment and sight picture.
Actuate the trigger in a manner that doesn't disturb the gun.

Class dismissed.

 

[orygun]

Shooting is simple.

Hold the handgun as tight as a hammer while driving a nail.
Learn proper sight alignment and sight picture.
Actuate the trigger in a manner that doesn't disturb the gun.

Class dismissed.

Proof that simple things are not always easy.

 

[1775usmc]

Shooting is simple.

Hold the handgun as tight as a hammer while driving a nail.
Learn proper sight alignment and sight picture.
Actuate the trigger in a manner that doesn't disturb the gun.

Class dismissed.

You know you're supposed to complicate everything right….. this percentage of grip on this hand, this percentage of grip on that hand. Oh float this thumb and point that thumb. Do this. Do that.

Thank you. I appreciate the simplicity. People try to complicate everything.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Proof that simple things are not always easy.

Most correct. Simple, but not easy.

Nothing can replace time behind the gun

 

[Cerberus Group]

You know you're supposed to complicate everything right….. this percentage of grip on this hand, this percentage of grip on that hand. Oh float this thumb and point that thumb. Do this. Do that.

Thank you. I appreciate the simplicity. People try to complicate everything.

People have made so much money from books and videos.

I look back to the days of yore...what were the traits of successful gunfighters, specifically the area of accuracy?

Exactly what I laid out above, that's it.

They didn't have books and mind thought classes, all they had was time behind the gun...and they only had one or two guns. As they say, watch out for the person that owns one gun...

You can't learn anything new going Mach 5. There are no shortcuts. Wanna shoot like Jerry Miculek? Its not going to happen overnight. You're going to have to put in a lot of time.

When I work with a shooter, 90+% of the time they are going too fast for their ability...and everyone progresses at different rates/speed of learning.

Anyone having trouble, let's get a group together and I'll fix all of you in about 10 minutes. Will give you a clear path of what you need to do to progress. When the time is done, you'll think...well duh, that was simple.

 

[Cerberus Group]

 

[Crmcdm]

Go binge on Ben Stoeger and Hwansik Kim videos. This is a classic trigger control, strong hand pushing left description. Lots of dry fire paying very close attention to isolating trigger finger and firing hand tension, support hand grip. You will fix this.

 

[aljames]

OP,

Handguns are difficult to shoot accurately. It takes different people varying degrees of practice in order to become proficient. I would recommend dry firing until your finger is raw in an effort to train your brain that nothing jarring or alarming is going to happen when you squeeze the trigger.

If every time you shook my hand I punched you in the face with my other hand your body would automatically begin to flinch every time you shook my hand. With dry firing you are reinforcing the "nothing is going to happen when I pull the trigger" part of your brain. Depending on the gun design don't forget the snap caps.

I would also echo the posters above who recommended a good 22 semi auto. If you're trying to train for a Glock centerfire the Glock 44 is about perfect. Same grip angle and controls along with the sites. If you put 5000 rounds through a 22 pistol I can almost guarantee that you will become a better shot. Good luck with your training and let us know once you get things lined up correctly.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Take up 'knife throwing'...problem solved!