Poll: Which semi auto .22LR ?

[brenty]

Going to my first appleseed event here pretty soon and I am torn between just shooting my AR or if i should get a semi auto .22 for this first event, I have a bolt savage fvsr but I know thats not the ideal .22 for an event like this. I know, ruger 10/22 but imagine that wasnt an option. I have been looking at the ISSC MK22 and the new savage A22 22LR. If anyone has any experience with either of these riles or has another suggestion that would be awesome!

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[Flopsweat]

The A22 is a very accurate rifle. I've never shot the MK22, but American Rifleman did and they didn't get very good groups from it:

ISSC MK22 .22 Rifle

 

[SA Shooter]

Here's my recommendation...the S&W M&P 15-22. No FTF or FTE issues with it except with the Golden Bullet ammo. Everything else feeds and ejects fine. Some folks try some extractor tweaks or replace it with a VQ extractor but I haven't had to do that with mine.

I really like how this breaks down for cleaning and how the controls work. It's just like the AR platform including a charging handle out back. So if you are used to that platform, the 15-22 will seem as if you just got a smaller, lighter, AR in your hands. You won't have to learn how to manage another platform.

 

[etrain16]

Why would the 10/22 not be an option? I understand a lot of folks use that for Appleseed. Here is an excerpt right from the Appleseed website:

The Ruger 10/22 rifle is a good choice because of its low price, accuracy and many available aftermarket parts, but you can also use a Marlin 795 as a good rifle to start with. Both rifles out of the box are more accurate than the skills of most shooters. In fact many Appleseeders have earned their Rifleman Qualification with a standard factory 10/22 or Marlin. The essentials of creating an LTR comprise adding sling swivels along with a US GI style sling and adjustable sights. If you want to go further, consider a quick magazine release.

I would recommend (though haven't shot Appleseed yet), either the Ruger 10/22 or the Marlin 795 - I own both and both are great rifles. On the Marlin, ProMag makes a 25-round magazine that works really well, one of the few ProMag items that actually function well. The 795 will save you a little $$. I had mine upgraded recently with Tech Sites in anticipation of using it for Appleseed down the road.

Check out this doc if you haven't already: https://appleseedinfo.org/pdf/LTR.doc

 

[etrain16]

Here's my recommendation...the S&W M&P 15-22. No FTF or FTE issues with it except with the Golden Bullet ammo. Everything else feeds and ejects fine. Some folks try some extractor tweaks or replace it with a VQ extractor but I haven't had to do that with mine.

I really like how this breaks down for cleaning and how the controls work. It's just like the AR platform including a charging handle out back. So if you are used to that platform, the 15-22 will seem as if you just got a smaller, lighter, AR in your hands. You won't have to learn how to manage another platform.

View attachment 335079

M&P 15-22's are great rifles!

BUT, as of Sept. 2016, they are temporarily banned prohibited from Appleseed events for a safety issue:

S&W M&P 15/22's temporarily banned from our line

Everybody,

Please be aware that as of today the AOC has banned the S&W M&P 15/22 from our lines until S&W addresses and resolves certain safety and reliability issues. We have experienced a number of issues on the line with these rifles. This culminated in an issue this past weekend with an OOBD.

As a result of these incidents, the AOC has temporily banned the rifle from our lines. This is temporary for now pending S&W's reponse and remediation plans for the rifle. Decisions will be made later as to the return of this rifle to our line pending S&W's plans to fix/replace the current rifles and our ability to identify a corrected rifle from the current design.


As far as I know, this ban has yet to be lifted.

 

[Member 5605]

Skip the 795 and go to the Model 60 with a nice wood stock.

Sorry I'm just a fan of the Model 60 and tube fed designs. Same everything else for the most part. The advantage I believe with a Marlin is the microgrooved barrel and heavier barreled design.

A reasonable priced wood stock 60 in a store will set you back $189-199 depending on if you get the fancier stock.

 

[CHLChris]

Though I've never been to one, it seems to me that Appleseed is about your skills and not your rifle. I would definitely suggest iron sights the first time because they are teaching aiming skills and trigger control. I have a rifle all set to go and have never gotten a chance yet.

Marlin 925 bolt action, five 10rd magazines, TechSights, leather sling.

In my opinion, a bolt 22 with peep sights of some sort has to be the perfect Appleseed rifle. A semi-auto may make you feel too comfortable going fast. A bolt gun will necessarily slow you down. A lever 22 would fit this description just as well, but will be slower to reload.

How about a Ruger American Rimfire? That's a bolt gun that uses 10/22 magazines.

 

[etrain16]

Skip the 795 and go to the Model 60 with a nice wood stock.

Sorry I'm just a fan of the Model 60 and tube fed designs. Same everything else for the most part. The advantage I believe with a Marlin is the microgrooved barrel and heavier barreled design.

A reasonable priced wood stock 60 in a store will set you back $189-199 depending on if you get the fancier stock.

The 60 is good, but maybe not for Appleseed. Having removable magazines, from what I've been told, is important due to timed shots/reloads. I've got the 60 too, first gun I ever owned, and still have it, but probably wouldn't use it for Appleseed.

 

[Ura-Ki]

+1 for the Marlin 60!!! Great rifles to shoot with, and he tube feed is big advantage, and you don't have itty bitty mags to loose! JMO

 

[etrain16]

Here is a quote from @Kimber Custom who runs the Appleseed events at DRRC. Regarding the type of rifle:

Yes sir. We are not equipment snobs. Whatever you bring to the line, we will help you shoot it better.

Now, that said - the AQT is really designed for semi-auto, magazine fed rifle with adjustable sighting system (scopes are fine, I don't recommend a red dot) and an adjustable sling (GI Web sling is preferred)

Bolt action ramps up the difficulty. Lever gun even more so since both of these force you to break position to cycle the action. I've handed out many rifleman patches to bolt guns. I've never handed a rifleman patch to a lever gun (but there's always that first ).

We do offer loaner equipment if you don't want to handicap yourself.

It might be worth checking out this thread on Appleseed, some of this was discussed there - the quote above came from that thread:

Attended a Project Appleseed event this weekend...wow

 

[SA Shooter]

I had no idea they hadn't lifted that ban yet. Thanks for the info, @etrain16

 

[Certaindeaf]

Yea, get a Marlin tube fed.. or magazine fed. The one I had was crazy accurate out at 100yds with a 4x Weaver scope.
I'd imagine you could put an aperture sight on the thing easy enough.

 

[Kimber Custom]

Brenty, looking forward to having you on the line.

Appleseed is very taxing on the mind, body and equipment. Many people underestimate what we do in 2 days and overestimate their own skill set. Our goal is a 4MOA standard or 1" at 82' without a bench or bi-pods.

The mechanics are simple - they are not easy.

We are going to go through about 400 rounds in a weekend. Even at full bore retail a box of .22lr will be a third the cost of running your AR. There are some benefits to running the AR - if that's your platform you should be really proficient. Appleseed will help

I'm afraid we have not resolved the issue with the 15-22 so they are not allowed on the line at this time (I hate the term banned )

Tube fed are really not a problem. A speed loader helps move things along or you can tape up one end of a McDonald's straw to improvise a speed loader. When we get to the reloads we will have you put 11 rounds in the tube instead of 10 and then you simply rack one out to emulate the reload.

Iron's vs. Scope - I can go either way on this. Someone who starts with irons can transition the skills to optics easier than the other way around. On the other hand, aiming is only 10% of marksmanship and so much more can be achieved by focusing on trigger control, breathing and position. Dealers choice.

See you on the line.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Having never been to an Appleseed event, I cannot say what would be the best tool for the job, but I think reading what was posted about removable mags and semi autos, that there needs to be a shift in the training curriculum to better serve those who choose to use a Bolt Action ( and Levers)
If there is a Bias toward Auto Feeders, then the training isn't benefiting every/any one! A true Rifle Man should not be limited in the tool he/she chooses to use, and the best Riflemen ALWAYS choose a Bolt Gun! One of the reasons Service Rifle comps isn't any fun any more in the invasion of "National Match" M-1A rifles and AR-15's and NOT true service rifles like the old days! Hell, even the Boy Scouts Rifle training program has shifted away from actual skills with a rifle and now is just another merit badge instead of a very prideful accomplishment! Sorry for the thread drift, but I see a few problems here and wanted to point them out!

 

[DB is Here]

+1 on the Ruger 10/22 w/ BX25 mag

Actually I have several of these damn things...LOL

 

[Kimber Custom]

Our AQT is a timed target shot in 4 stages with a possible 250 points. Scores of 210 or better earn a Rifleman patch. Typically we see about 10% of participants earn that patch and most of them are on their 2nd, 3rd or more Appleseed events. It is far more challenging than most people anticipate.

However, I've seen it done with a single load cricket. I've seen a 247/250 with a Remington 700 with a 4 round magazine. I've seen people shoot stage 2 (the stage where it's not unusual to run out of time) and be up and off the line and mags being prepped for stage 3 before Cease Fire is called. It's not the rifle - it's the shooter.

Historically our instruction stems from the military's use of the 1903 and the M1 Garand. That's why our mag prep is 2 and 8.

My point is that your own personal goals should decide what equipment you bring.

If you're first starting out, bring a .22 semi auto. If you're more experienced, bring the bolt gun. If you want to learn more about your battle rifle, bring your battle rifle etc.

Incidentally, lever guns tend to come with the non-adjustable notch and post sights that just aren't well suited for precision. I suppose there could be exceptions to the rule but that's been my experience to date.

 

[DONOTBUGME]

Has Smith and Wesson addressed the issue at all? I used my A/R at the apple seed event cause my mp15-22 was not allowed. I was the only one not using a .22. Still had a blast and learned a lot. I didn't get my rifleman patch though.

 

[Boboclown]

The ISSC Mk22 has enough reported issues to not consider it IMO. Some of them are an easy fix, but there would be better options.

 

[Kimber Custom]

Has Smith and Wesson addressed the issue at all? I used my A/R at the apple seed event cause my mp15-22 was not allowed. I was the only one not using a .22. Still had a blast and learned a lot. I didn't get my rifleman patch though.

Not as of yet. I'm hoping the AOC backs down and lets us do a waiver like we did for the semi-auto .17 HRM. Until then my hands are tied.

 

[etrain16]

(I hate the term banned )

Okay, okay, I fixed it.... See edited post above