What’s the point of a pistol mounted laser?

[OldBroad44]

I have a grip-mounted Crimson Trace laser on my Buddy, my EDC, who is a SW 686 snubby .357 mag. At night Buddy is within arms reach when I'm lying down in bed, as are my eyeglasses. Given enough time I can put my glasses on AND grab the gun. In which case I can use either sights or laser. At 12' the laser appears on the target, day or night, as a bright orange dot that's about 1" below and 1/2" right of the point of aim. In a SD situation I'd use the laser, as it allows my eyes to be focused on the target rather than on the front sight. Which is optimal when you need to be looking at target to see if it has a weapon in either hand, etc. When an assailant who was charging you has halted and is backing away in response to the gun, your eyes need to be focused on his left and right hands, not the front sight. The time I found myself in this situation I found the bad guy's two hands very far apart, and could not focus simultaneously on the front sight. But I had done a lot of point shooting practice basically aiming the gun using a point focus in which my eyes were focused on the attacker and the entire front end of the gun barrel became the sight. So that's what I did. (My EDC in those days was a revolver with no laser.)(Bad guy had left neighbors window in broad daylight carrying a tv and started across my back yard, saw me, put TV down and charged me. I was instantly in an appropriate stance with my EDC of that era, a charter arms .44 Bulldog drawn and pointed, and bad guy was desperately trying to stop and yelling "Lady! Be cool with that gun!" When he managed to stop he then slowly backed away with his hands up. Had he at any point have drawn a weapon I would have needed to shoot him, so my focus had to be on his hands.)

But what if I'm lying in bed and discover attacker on his way through the bedroom door, in which there would just be time enough to grab gun without eyeglasses? Or glasses have been knocked off in a blow or struggle before I can draw the gun? Without my glasses, night or day, I can't see either the front sight or even the muzzle end of the barrel. However, the laser appears to my uncorrected vision as a huge obvious blob on the target that appears to be about a foot across at 12'. Very easy to see. And the gun doesn't need to be on the line of sight between eyes and target either.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Sounds cool on the classifieds. Probably never get the chance to activate the laser in a self defense situation. The laser might be cool for range practice though it's probably wobbling all over the place.

I don't see the benefit but I'm guessing there is a practical piece to it. Just curious everyone's thought. Would like to be educated if I'm missing something.

I spent a number of years on a pro paintball team. With a little acclimatization to a particular weapon I don't need sights at all. But I find that I really like the laser on my compact carry weapon. The "on" button is right underneath my fingertip as I draw from the holster. My aging eyes don't do well with traditional pistol sights, and there's no hunting around for the front sight. Why other people feel so threatened by what works for me is puzzling.

 

[when_DM_smiles]

Attatched to your gun, it shows you what your irons are doing. If the dot is "bouncing around" your irons are too.

The way my 53 year old eyes focus, front iron sights are always a blur. Thus, any aiming is an educated guess.

In my humble opinion, red dot optics are a god-send. Lasers work great too but your presentation and follow-ups needs to be spot-on else any lazer projection on a target of sufficient distance away from a reference wall/background can disappear (at least according to my red/green color blind eyes). For me, red dot optics help by creating a single plane of focus for my point of aim regardless of on target or slightly off. Visually for me, a red dot appears to "bounce" less than an on target laser projection.

Still, I think it's best to practice with what you have. Red dots on full size/compact/subcompacts, irons for IDPA back-up size, and grip laser for small revolvers.

 

[Alexx1401]

Good point. A red dot mounted to a pistol is not much different than a laser. You have to re-train for it as you would a laser mounted on the frame rail. It does essentially the same thing without the "hey look over here at this bright light coming off my gun" problem. Some less expensive or non-coated red dots still emit light from the front though so still not perfect.

Some kind of RMR sight for my full size are one thing I have looked at many a time and will no doubt one day get. For me with my full size GM's I can still do "acceptable to me" due to the size. Looking for the front sight is second nature. One 1911 does wear a CT Laser as it just enhances my ability. To me the chance someone I am going to shoot may see it? Since I am not creeping around in the dark the dobad is going to see me anyway. For me to shoot I would have to know for sure what I was shooting. Which means they will have to be able to see me too. The first laser's I ever bought were for the pocket pistols after they perfected the idea. Some of these have almost no front sight to begin with as they are well, pocket pistols. If I put an RMR on one it would sure make it easier to shoot but would kind of make them loose the pocket capacity.
As for using a laser to learn I have never used one to teach other than for dry fire but for me I was shooing for decades before they were invented so guess different for me than some others.
As for using them instead of learning to shoot I have to "guess" maybe some do now days. If so sounds like poor training. Someone should learn to shoot first with irons before training with anything else. MANY of the "crack shots" I was talking about earlier told me they did not "need" any kind of sights. 99% of them then could not hit the paper with compact or sub compact pistols at 30ft.
There are a few people who can shoot that well and really need no sights. I sure as hell was never one of them. Again though as I say every time this comes up I don't sell any of this stuff so really don't care if others hate on it. Do find it almost odd so many seem to have a deranged hatred of different sighting systems though.

 

[2Wheels4Ever]

I used to be in the camp that painted lasers as gimmicks for old toots. Then I did some practice shooting at night behind cover from various positions. Even with night sights, my hit percentage was significantly higher with a laser. So now, on my HD guns, I run a light/laser combo. If I need to make a shot at 25-35 yards at night, I know I can confidently connect. However, I live on property with out buildings and live stock that are 100-300 feet away, so the likelihood of me needing to take a shot at longer range is significantly higher than it was when I lived in the city.

 

[Alexx1401]

most people see green quicker than red, its brighter on the spectrum. Its also why green lasers burn more battery faster than red lasers.

I have long heard that too and don't know if its "just my eye's" or what but I find little difference. Have some Dot optics and lasers that offer green. On the dot optics they offer both red and green. When playing around and switching between them I can't really seem to see a difference when they are both at the same brightness level. This may be just me though. Others should of course try both if they are going to use these and see if one works better for them. I remember when the green first hit they were far more expensive. Now days there seems to be only a slight difference in cost. The last couple LaserMax I bought are in green and IIRC they were offered in red at only a slightly lower cost so went with green.

 

[Catfishmoon]

Lasers are not my thing, but I see where they would benefit some people, to each their own, whatever works best for the individual...
Just another system of sighting.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

I have long heard that too and don't know if its "just my eye's" or what but I find little difference. Have some Dot optics and lasers that offer green. On the dot optics they offer both red and green. When playing around and switching between them I can't really seem to see a difference when they are both at the same brightness level. This may be just me though. Others should of course try both if they are going to use these and see if one works better for them. I remember when the green first hit they were far more expensive. Now days there seems to be only a slight difference in cost. The last couple LaserMax I bought are in green and IIRC they were offered in red at only a slightly lower cost so went with green.

Take a red and a green laser outside on a sunny day. HUGE difference! The green still jumps out at you but you'll play hell findin' the red one.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Take a red and a green laser outside on a sunny day. HUGE difference! The green still jumps out at you but you'll play hell findin' the red one.

This is why I use tracers for the burn!

 

[Alexx1401]

Take a red and a green laser outside on a sunny day. HUGE difference! The green still jumps out at you but you'll play hell findin' the red one.

Again may just be me but I was just outside shooting so I took both. Can't seem to see much if any difference. May well be just my old eye's though. Anyone who wants to try these should try to get a look at both. See if they can see a difference.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Since we live on Mars where a red laser would just get lost, it really does make sense to use a green laser.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

For me, the point is that it gives you options...and I like having options.

 

[Certaindeaf]

For me, the point is that it gives you options...and I like having options.

View attachment 1417937

Like a gunnysack holster? Do they make a holster for that?




Just kidding!

 

[L84Cabo]

It's another tool in the arsenal.

It allows you to threat focus as opposed to focusing on your front sight.

May be better for people with aging eyes.

May be easier to acquire a target in dark environments.

In certain situations it may allow you to visually acquire the target while keeping more of your body behind cover/concealment.

There may be downsides too. It may not be visible in bright light. Target acquisition may be slightly slower. They run on batteries which can fail.

There are absolutely pluses to lasers. But they should not replace iron sights. A person should practice with both if they're going to carry a laser. As a side note, they're a lot of fun too. YMMV.

Also...as a training aid for dry firing they are EXCELLENT. Gives you very easy visual feedback of what your muzzle is doing when you press the trigger.

 

[Nosferatu]

So I shouldn't CCW the Imatronic anymore?

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I used to be in the camp that painted lasers as gimmicks for old toots. Then I did some practice shooting at night behind cover from various positions. Even with night sights, my hit percentage was significantly higher with a laser. So now, on my HD guns, I run a light/laser combo. If I need to make a shot at 25-35 yards at night, I know I can confidently connect. However, I live on property with out buildings and live stock that are 100-300 feet away, so the likelihood of me needing to take a shot at longer range is significantly higher than it was when I lived in the city.

I live in a similar situation. Shots could be up to 200 yds in a home defense situation, and likely 50-100 yds at night. Therefore two of my HD ARs have some combination of high powered flashlight, red dot, laser, and 1X-2X scope. I've tested them at night and the laser is visible even with the 2000 lumen flashlight. Lasers and flashlights are operated by paddle switches on the hand guard.

 

[bbbass]

I've seen members at our range target practicing with them and they chase the bouncing dot all over the place instead of using normal shooting skills. It really makes them a worse shot.

^^^ This!!!

I practiced SD shooting with my oldest brother at the Clark County Shooting Center in N. Las Vegas, a highly controlled enviro but one of the few that would allow shooters to draw from holster (hip worn only). He had a Bersa .380 with a laser. As a long time/experienced USPSA and IDPA practitioner, I was very surprised at how slow he was to find the laser dot on the target at 7yds. And yes, it did bounce all over. I talked to him and found out that he had never learned to use his sights nor grip/finger discipline. The laser was a crutch and he couldn't shoot w/o it. Horrible thing to do to a new shooter!!

I'm not against laser sights, I have them on my HD long guns, but a newbie should really learn to shoot w/o all the tech stuff first.

Eventually, Boomers will realize you can put a laser emitter on the TOP of the gun- in the form of a red dot optic...and actually gain some reliable utility.

"Boomers"???

And the advice I think is dumb is to start off with a laser knowing virtually nothing else about shooting. It's pushed often at the gun counters.

^^^ This!!!

 

[ma96782]

LOL......

A shooter doesn't have to actually practice with seeing sights and getting proper sight alignment, etc...... etc...... anymore.

YEAH......
Just put the red dot on and pull the trigger.
Awwwww.......Come On Man.







Is that you Brandon?

Aloha, Mark

 

[OldBroad44]

This "Boomer" prefers a laser built into the grip where it goes on automatically when grip is held firmly and it doesn't make the gun more difficult or impossible to find a holster for. This "Boomer" does not like being called a "Boomer" or having someone obviously younger imply that my membership in that class implies that I don't know anything. It's contemptuous of members of a particular class to assume that membership in that class means every person in that class is ignorant in some particular way. Even if most members of a particular class don't know about red dot sights combined with lasers, that does not mean any particular nwfa member is going to be ignorant. The male robber who was upset when I accidentally caught him trespassing across my yard with his stolen loot obviously assumed that he could attack a young female with impunity, but it was sexist to assume that he could attack any particular young woman with impunity. When he made that unwarranted assumption in my case he found himself instantly staring down the barrel of a .44 revolver. Much of the information transfer in nwfa is from the more experienced and very often older to the less experienced very often younger. It takes a lot of time to share that information. When I do I prefer to get some likes showing appreciation, not expressions of contempt for me because of my age.

 

[OldBroad44]

One thing I like about having a 686 snubby as my EDC is that the muzzle heavy balance makes it easy to point shoot the gun pretty well from hip and other odd positions because your hand can feel where the muzzle is, as is not possible with a light gun or a gun with a light barrel. But not so well as with the lazer. For example, if a bad guy was charging me from the bedroom door and there was no time to put on my glasses, without the laser I wouldnt risk the more difficult but instantly capacitating brain shot. I would instead aim for the spine about armpit high, figuring I would probably not hit the spine but would hit the lungs and/or heart, which alas does not instantly incapacitate, so I would need to empty the gun. This is assuming shooting one handed lying down. The invader might be able to kill or damage me while dying. In addition I would end up with an empty gun, and there may be additional invaders. However, with the laser I would instead shoot one shot at the head and subsequent shots at the chest. But if I got a solid hit on the head I would see it, and it is instantly incapacitating, so I could stop after one shot. But practically speaking the subsequent two shots would also happen. But I think I could at least end up with three unfired rounds for any additional invaders. And no danger of being killed by the invader while he is dying.