Washington What to do when the authorities don't act?.....

[Koda]

I think it's unrealistic to think our system can protect us. We all know a cop can't even do anything for the victim until a crime has been committed & that's not a criticism on the police, it's just the way any system has to work--

With that said all I can do is place blame on the victim for failing to take basic steps to defend herself, like having a small gun she coulda carried with her everywhere she goes and some training in it's use

I'm not normally a victim blamer but face up to the facts-- She knew the guy wanted to kill her

I agree with everything except the part she failed to take basic steps to protect herself. Its unrealistic to try to create a perfect system, when it comes to violence this is the fallacy of gun control. But she did take basic steps to protect herself, within the system which failed her.

I don't know how I feel suggesting that every person should take up arms and training in case they are attacked. I agree with the principle and that self defense responsibility lies only on the individual, but not certain carrying a gun is practical for everyone ...its like saying im a guitarist because I bought a guitar and took a free lesson.

 

[billdeserthills]

I agree with everything except the part she failed to take basic steps to protect herself. Its unrealistic to try to create a perfect system, when it comes to violence this is the fallacy of gun control. But she did take basic steps to protect herself, within the system which failed her.

I don't know how I feel suggesting that every person should take up arms and training in case they are attacked. I agree with the principle and that self defense responsibility lies only on the individual, but not certain carrying a gun is practical for everyone ...its like saying im a guitarist because I bought a guitar and took a free lesson.

I only say to take up arms because the last time I was beaten & robbed that's what I did. Of course the first thing I did was call the police-- the dispatcher laughed his a ss off when I told him I wanted to make a report about the 5 guys who beat me up & stole my money. Later on I decided the only way to prevent this sort of thing from happening again would be to defend myself.

Can you think of a way to guarantee the next victim of crime will be in a safer position without a weapon?

Cause I can't--I've called the police before when I needed help and even if they wanted to help they can't arrive before the crime has been committed anyway


Unfortunately, Minority Report is just a movie Minority Report (2002) - IMDb

 

[Koda]

Can you think of a way to guarantee the next victim of crime will be in a safer position without a weapon?

The problem here is the fallacy that the gun provides safety. The gun only provides a tool as an option for defense and there is nothing 'safe' about actually defending yourself. The gun doesnt mean anyone will win the fight, which means the gun does not provide safety. If we tell people it does, we are 'shooting our cause in the foot' (pun intended).

The reality is the victim was too dependent on the system and was not raised to believe its her individual responsibility to provide for her own safety. There are things she could have done to put herself in a safer position like ask for the police to meet her every day at the school, tell the school principle her situation and the likelyhood of an armed murderer being at the school. She could have had better situational awareness to the guy approaching her car.

I dont want to start blaming the victim here but the reality is the vast majority of people live in a fantasy world that the system will protect them and many people are simply not safe or capable with guns. I took a full day live fire class and one student couldn't hit an IDPA target at even 5 yards, slowed the whole class down. Carrying a gun as a solution when you've never trained in the past is not that great a solution to imminent danger. Self defense training of any system is actually a life long endevour. This is way more complicated than saying everyone should carry a gun.

 

[WillametteWill]

IMO the bail system is subjective

Good question. I can only state how bail is set where I worked but believe many areas are similar. Bail is typically a fixed amount based on the offense and priors. There are modifiers and quite a bit of the process is objective, as in here is the crime, first offense, $xx.xx for bail. However, as I posted earlier, officers / prosecutors can request bail enhancements based on the situations. Just like defendants and their attorneys can request bail reductions. There is also typically a process for OR or own recognizance, released. (I.e. minor crime, no further threat to the community and little likelihood of fleeing.)

In my experience, the subjective part comes in with the enhancements. Remember, I know we are all pro 2A here, but there are other "A" such as 8A, prohibiting excessive bail or fines. The goal of bail is to allow an innocent until proven guilty defendant to prepare for their defense. With the case we are talking about here, a no bail hold could completely be justified but I don't know how the rules work in each state.

These are all good discussion points in this thread when we are talking with friends and family who are open to dialog about gun laws and why the guns are not the problem.