Was: Obama, NorthwestFirearms, and where we go from here...

[JGRuby]

I will respect your request. Lets leave it at that.

James Ruby

 

[peetar]

Ruby, It's very difficult for me to keep an open mind about your past. And believe me, I'm trying. There are those of us who have served in the military without making threats against their crewmates. Please stay away from describing your service in this forum any more.

You're not the only submariner on this forum. I served on 637 class attack boats. I would like to be able to say that what you've done doesn't bother me, but it does. And it bothers me greatly. If your story is true, I'm rather surprised that you didn't spend time in Leavenworth. I suspect that more than a few would liked to have seen you turning big rocks into little rocks with the Walker family.

You have every right to voice your opinions here, but please, stop using your military experience as a demonstration of your stellar service to this country.

Wow haha! I knew this Ruby guy was a leftard tool the second I read his posts. He has that fake, measured tone (almost too respectful) that suggests he has something to hide. Where the U.S. Navy gets these people is beyond me. Never knew he was booted out of the service. Figures.

 

[Stomper]

I have read the constitution, i have read the UCMJ though dont have it memorized, I have also read the Blue Jackets Manual - no where in there does it say that you can second guess the president or those appointed above you. If the order was truly wrong then it would be cut and dry but many of the things being debated here are not cut and dry. There is also the morale concept of right and wrong. All these things must be considered when you decide to challenge the leadership and there will always be consequences for the leadership does not like to be challenged. Somethings must always be challenged regardless of the cost to ones self.

James Ruby

So using your logic, let's say you are ORDERED to line up a bunch of suspected "insurgents, dissidents, (etc)" and gun them down and throw their bodies into the ditch you that you were ORDERED to make them dig... its an ORDER, follow it... Right?

BTW- you omitted the word, "lawful" from "order" from said oath of service. Even the duly elected POTUS can be a potential domestic enemy of the Constitution. The POTUS is the CINC of the armed forces, not the infallible Emporer. I suppose the houses of congress have the sole authority to take down the POTUS, but... BUT, BUT, each service member is still responsible for their own actions regardless of "orders". I'd rather be on the right side of "eternal history" and convicted and tossed out for refusing to "follow a superior's orders" that would land me in a war crimes trial.

"I was just following orders" was not a valid defense at the Nuremburg trials after WWII, and I suspect it won't wash in any other "final judgement" sometime down the road that you may or may not believe in.

 

[U201491]

So using your logic, let's say you are ORDERED to line up a bunch of suspected "insurgents, dissidents, (etc)" and gun them down and throw their bodies into the ditch you that you were ORDERED to make them dig... its an ORDER, follow it... Right?

BTW- you omitted the word, "lawful" from "order" from said oath of service. Even the duly elected POTUS can be a potential domestic enemy of the Constitution. The POTUS is the CINC of the armed forces, not the infallible Emporer. I suppose the houses of congress have the sole authority to take down the POTUS, but... BUT, BUT, each service member is still responsible for their own actions regardless of "orders". I'd rather be on the right side of "eternal history" and convicted and tossed out for refusing to "follow a superior's orders" that would land me in a war crimes trial.

"I was just following orders" was not a valid defense at the Nuremburg trials after WWII, and I suspect it won't wash in any other "final judgement" sometime down the road that you may or may not believe in.

 

[JGRuby]

I will ultimately decide when presented with the situation. The question that comes to my mind immediately is what did the dissidents do to deserve to be shot? based on that answer I will make a judgement call and live with the consequences of that action.

Yes - doing my job is not a real good answer for the history book.

James Ruby

 

[U201491]

I will ultimately decide when presented with the situation. The question that comes to my mind immediately is what did the dissidents do to deserve to be shot? based on that answer I will make a judgement call and live with the consequences of that action.

Yes - doing my job is not a real good answer for the history book.

James Ruby

Kinda like Jack Ruby :-/

 

[Stomper]

I will ultimately decide when presented with the situation. The question that comes to my mind immediately is what did the dissidents do to deserve to be shot? based on that answer I will make a judgement call and live with the consequences of that action.

Yes - doing my job is not a real good answer for the history book.

James Ruby

Interesting how you chose to mention "dissident" rather than "insurgent" from my example... I don't think it was random, either.

A dissident, broadly defined, is a person who actively challenges an established doctrine, policy, or institution. When dissidents unite for a common cause they often effect a dissident movement.
The noun was first used in the political sense in 1940, with the rise of such totalitarian systems as the Soviet Union.

So "depending" on what they did hinges on you sumarily executing captured "dissidents"... wow.


I often wondered while growing up and studying history in school how such horrible tyrants could rise up and get the people to do what they did, and now I know... people similar, if not just like you.

Freedom gets destroyed often with thunderous applause from the very citizens that were once free.

 

[DMax]

Thanks Stomper for rooting that out. The 2A and rights pretenders live amoung us. Let the vetting begin.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Rather...Let the deportations begin

 

[JGRuby]

Stomper
I used a term out of your previous post - "So using your logic, let's say you are ORDERED to line up a bunch of suspected "insurgents, dissidents, (etc)" - you used the term dissident first not me.

And yes if someone had killed people to simply make a point - I would have no problem with the shooting versus some one just stating their opinion or to protest peacefully / demonstrate yes there eixsts a big difference. i believe that there are crimes punishable by a death sentence. I do believe in capital crime and punishment, child molestation is one such crime.

Be fully aware I would not kill simply because someone told me to - I make that decision myself so the ignorance you show in your statements pertaining to others doing tyrants work may apply to some but it does not apply to me. I am 100% repsonsible for my own actions and the consequences of those actions.

James Ruby

 

[U201491]

Stomper
I used a term out of your previous post - "So using your logic, let's say you are ORDERED to line up a bunch of suspected "insurgents, dissidents, (etc)" - you used the term dissident first not me.
James Ruby

He DID NOT use it in the same contexts you did.

 

[Stomper]

Stomper
I used a term out of your previous post - "So using your logic, let's say you are ORDERED to line up a bunch of suspected "insurgents, dissidents, (etc)" - you used the term dissident first not me.

And yes if someone had killed people to simply make a point - I would have no problem with the shooting versus some one just stating their opinion or to protest peacefully / demonstrate yes there eixsts a big difference. i believe that there are crimes punishable by a death sentence. I do believe in capital crime and punishment, child molestation is one such crime.

Be fully aware I would not kill simply because someone told me to - I make that decision myself so the ignorance you show in your statements pertaining to others doing tyrants work may apply to some but it does not apply to me. I am 100% repsonsible for my own actions and the consequences of those actions.

James Ruby

Nice try, but you intentionally misstated what I said, and are also taking out of context the original question I posed to you on "following orders"... I also pointed out how you chose to use ONLY the word "dissident" and omitted "insurgent", or "(etc)"... very telling on YOUR mindset.

You should also learn what "ignorant" means, because your misuse of the word is ignorant... what you are doing is called, "projection. ". BTW- I've been told by more than one lawyer that I SHOULD have been a lawyer (I told them thanks, but I have a soul... LOL). Maybe you ought to go take a breather for a while before you post on this subject again... just sayin'.

 

[JGRuby]

Yeah I bet you would of made a good lawyer - I can picture you doing that. I dont like playing semantics - you apparently do.

James Ruby

Honestly I never gave a thought to a difference between dissident and insurgent - I thought that they pretty much were synonyms. Guess not.

 

[peetar]

Yeah I bet you would of made a good lawyer - I can picture you doing that. I dont like playing semantics - you apparently do.

James Ruby

Honestly I never gave a thought to a difference between dissident and insurgent - I thought that they pretty much were synonyms. Guess not.

Of course you would have claimed to not have recognized the difference. Leftists (progressive leftard / communist, race baiters and scumbag - traitors to the Republic and to their service to this country) have a long and DELIBERATE history of pretending to not understand and recognize peaceful VS violent rebellion.
They claim they were following orders.
Dissident= political activist
Insurgent = person making war and actively engaged in combat.
You know the difference between these two groups because you have the capacity to post here.
You were sent here.

 

[Stomper]

Yeah I bet you would of made a good lawyer - I can picture you doing that. I dont like playing semantics - you apparently do.

James Ruby

Honestly I never gave a thought to a difference between dissident and insurgent - I thought that they pretty much were synonyms. Guess not.

The Devil adroitly used "semantics" in the Book of Genesis, and he won the battle that day. Latter, he attempted "semantics" when he tempted Christ and lost the game for eternity.

Words mean things, and (im)properly used within (im)proper context have eternal echos... best be on your game when you engage with them.

 

[JGRuby]

Peetar - I have a honorable discharge and received a sum when I left the service - it was a pay out for an early retirement. the Navy was downsizing in my rate - as an Electricians Mate 1st Class Petty Officer.
I was not kicked out - I applied to be release as part of the downsizing. I could have stayed but not gone any where so it was time to part ways.
I will say no more as requested.
I normally try to show respect when shown respect. That seems to be beyond your standards.

James Ruby

I come here of my free will and have not been given a dime by any political party - you just dont seem to understand that people have opinions different from your own. I imagine that you are a twenty something punk that is still trying to grow up - good luck with that.

 

[BigStick]

I am concerned with the fact that you find yourself fully justified and worthy in making a life and death decision on your own. If ordered to shoot a criminal (whatever you want to call them) you would make your own decision? Would you have to have witnessed the attrocities that you would be carrying out the execution for, or would you take the word of whoever it was giving the orders that what is accused actually happened?

What happened to our right to a trial, etc...

I don't want 18 year old Privates or Corporals getting to decide if the crime I am accused of actually happened, and wether or not that is deserving of death. Any government that uses this type of tactics deserves to be rebelled against.

 

[U201491]

I am concerned with the fact that you find yourself fully justified and worthy in making a life and death decision on your own. If ordered to shoot a criminal (whatever you want to call them) you would make your own decision? Would you have to have witnessed the attrocities that you would be carrying out the execution for, or would you take the word of whoever it was giving the orders that what is accused actually happened?

What happened to our right to a trial, etc...

I don't want 18 year old Privates or Corporals getting to decide if the crime I am accused of actually happened, and wether or not that is deserving of death. Any government that uses this type of tactics deserves to be rebelled against.

 

[JGRuby]

I am concerned with the fact that you find yourself fully justified and worthy in making a life and death decision on your own. If ordered to shoot a criminal (whatever you want to call them) you would make your own decision? Would you have to have witnessed the attrocities that you would be carrying out the execution for, or would you take the word of whoever it was giving the orders that what is accused actually happened?

What happened to our right to a trial, etc...

I don't want 18 year old Privates or Corporals getting to decide if the crime I am accused of actually happened, and wether or not that is deserving of death. Any government that uses this type of tactics deserves to be rebelled against.

Yes I do - anyone that has been issued a weapon , has a weapon doesnt have it because they are trying to be freindly they have a pistol or firearm because they someday might need it to make a decision where some one might lose thier life. There are things that I would take some soul seraching on to come up with the correct answer on such as some one hurting a family member for instance. I agree with trial by your peers ( the jury ) system - I sure hope that I am given that chance if I ever am in trouble with the law or my beleifs. I find Holder to be so far out of bounds when he stated that an american that is too hard to get can be tried by a panel and the due process is not guranteed. I do not ever want to be judge, jury and executioneer, ever. I dont think that one person should ever be given that kind of power.

james Ruby

 

[peetar]

Peetar - I have a honorable discharge and received a sum when I left the service - it was a pay out for an early retirement. the Navy was downsizing in my rate - as an Electricians Mate 1st Class Petty Officer.
I was not kicked out - I applied to be release as part of the downsizing. I could have stayed but not gone any where so it was time to part ways.
I will say no more as requested.
I normally try to show respect when shown respect. That seems to be beyond your standards.

James Ruby

I come here of my free will and have not been given a dime by any political party - you just dont seem to understand that people have opinions different from your own. I imagine that you are a twenty something punk that is still trying to grow up - good luck with that.

I never said you were a paid agitator. Just an agitator. A shill. A dupe. A trotsky-loving aging leftist.
You didn't "Part Ways" with the Navy, you were forced out and probably should have been imprisoned for what you did. You got away with it. 30 years ago you would have been tried for treason / mutiny. It is a testament to the state of our Navy today that you weren't. After all, the Secretary of the Navy says global warming is the number one threat to the country. So there it is.

What is hilarious to me is that when aging hippies (of the Alinsky archetype) such as yourself are brought out into the light and you are exposed, you people always say the same things. Things like "Be respectful of my views". Show me the respect I deserve whilst I spread communist agitprop far and wide.
The next tactic is to say the person is immature or a "troll".

I show respect to people who deserve it. Not to communists, traitors, National Socialists, fascists or liars.
People like you deserve to be publicly shamed, not respected. Your views are completely without merit.