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Wall Penatration

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by tacticalgunner, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. tacticalgunner

    tacticalgunner Wilsonville The Man, The Myth, The Legend Bronze Supporter

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  2. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Glad none of the walls in my house are just Dry wall. In addition to two layers of 5/8" dry wall the bullet will have to travel through two layers of 3/4" thick clear straight grain fir bead board. The outside wall of my house on three sides are even thicker. With (from the inside) 5/8" drywall 3/4" Fir Bead board, 4" Celotex insulation (shredded paper), 3/4" fir lapboard siding, 2) layers of 3/4" thick clap board siding, 7/16" OSB, Tyvek vapor barrier, 5/16" thick 5" revel Hardie plank cement siding with 1 1/2" of over lap.

    So 5/8" dry wall then 3" of clear fir (90 years old and hard as a rock) 7/16" of OSB then 4" of paper then the Tyvek and 5/16-5/8" of cement board.

    4.3" of solid wood or cement board + 4" of loose paper and Tyvek.

    Course I could always hit a triple glazed window.
     
  3. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Hopefully this brings home the birdshot idea for an interior defense round. The idea is not to miss what you are shooting up and take up some of that force.
     
  4. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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  5. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Should be GTG with some 12ga slugs.
     
  6. tacticalgunner

    tacticalgunner Wilsonville The Man, The Myth, The Legend Bronze Supporter

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    Center, do you live in a bank vault :) All kidding aside, most houses are not built like that, i would love to see a lathe and plaster test. That would be interesting. I know a lot of folks like the idea of shoting a bad guy with something heavy, but I am not. Bird shot will do, it will knock them down, since looking at my house the farthest distance will no more than 5 yards without another wall or something. Anyways, i thought it was a good video
     
  7. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The cheapest Target grade low base #8 shot at less the the 20ft you could get away from me in my house will do just fine. The .44spl in the bedroom is for backup.
     
  8. Derbel McDillet

    Derbel McDillet Kitsap County, WA Member

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    Birdshot does not penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach vitals - even at home defense distances. It'll make an ugly shallow hole.
     
  9. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Really ?

    Last summer I put up a target and put a round of # 8 bird shot in it from about 20 feet. There was a solid mass of shot about 2 inches across center. Backed up to 30 feet and that solid mass went out to about 7 inches. Might want to take a couple pieces of plywood, put a bird shot round in them at home defense distances and see what the pattern and penetration really is so you understand the actual capability of the round at that distance.

    It will be a hell of a lot more than a shallow hole.

    Bird Shot vs Meat (Home Defense Shotgun) - YouTube

    Birdshot Home Defense Gel Test - YouTube
     
  10. Derbel McDillet

    Derbel McDillet Kitsap County, WA Member

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    Yes, REALLY!

    To reliably reach and damage vitals a projectile(s) must penetrate a minimum of 12 inches. Birdshot does not provide this level of terminal performance. Birdshot is for birds.

    Yes, I watched the amateur videos. They are unconvincing.

    See - Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition at http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  11. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Shoot a human in center-of-mass with 12 Ga. #2 bird shot within 15 feet through an improved cylinder bore and that person is out of the game; will probably bleed out on the way to the hospital if they survive the shock and trauma.

    Websites can go on about penetration all they want, but enough chalk has outlined the bodies of people hit with 12Ga birdshot to make me a believer, enough to know I would not want to stand in front of that thing.

    Next time you have an opportunity, chat up a friendly police officer about the effects he or she's seen of 12Ga birdshot on actual people.
     
  12. Derbel McDillet

    Derbel McDillet Kitsap County, WA Member

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    If an attacker can "bleed out on the way to the hospital" then he/she will remain dangerous until this happens.

    I'm former LEO. There's a reason why law enforcement uses buckshot - because birdshot is inadequate.
     
  13. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Not going to argue with you about this. You can have your opinion. I have mine. I have seen someone shot very dead with birdshot. One shot right to the cartoid artery. Dead in about 2 minutes. That is enough for me.
     
  14. Derbel McDillet

    Derbel McDillet Kitsap County, WA Member

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    Which is a shallow artery.

    I've seen bad guys shot solidly in the torso with both shotgun and centerfire rifle bullets with zero effect and continue on to kill.
     
  15. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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  16. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    1stklass and (deleted member) like this.
  17. 1stklass

    1stklass salem oregon Well-Known Member

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    I blew a hole in a 55 gallon steel drum with birdshot at 15 feet. I wasn't expecting it to do much more than scratch the paint but then i realized at 15 feet the shot probably had not even completely cleared the wad essentially turning all those pellets into a slug. None of the pellets penetrated the back of the drum but it left a very solid 2 inch wide depression on the inside back wall. I guess some of you think you are tougher than steel and that is fine, but i hope i am at least 25 yards away if someone ever shoots me with birdshot. :thumbup:
     
  18. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    I had to do some wall patching after a friend "sleep shot" with her 9mm. She was having a nightmare, sat up right in bed and fired a shot just to the left of the door and went back to sleep. She didn't realize that she had actually shot till the next morning when she found the hole in the blanket and the light switch didn't work. The bullet failed to expand - went through the first layer of sheetrock, cut the wire to the light switch, through the back of that wall, across the hall and through both sides of that wall as well, stopping after it bounced off of a stuffed bunny in the closet after going through a spiral notebook. Glad I wasn't trying to bash that door in when she shot - anyone over 6' would have caught it in the head at that trajectory.
     
  19. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Yea well a slug will go through an elephant's head. lol
     
  20. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    It's a good thing she didn't shoot someone. I would have a hard time believing her account if I was on a jury.